[identity profile] hoald.livejournal.com

Recueil de documents pour l'histoire du Club des Jacobins de Paris.

Séance du vendredi 16 septembre 1791
Présidence de M. Rœderer

... ...

M. le Président fait lecture de deux lettres adressées à la Société par MM. de la Porte, Olivet, Carle, Coubrel et Mérard de Saint-Just, qui demandent à rentrer dans la Société. Le dernier proteste n'avoir pas mis les pieds aux Feuillants, les autres avouent y avoir été, mais avoir tenté tous les moyens de réunion. Cette assertion est certifiée par M. Salle. - M. Corroller demande que ces messieurs soient admis à se présenter, comme les autres membres, en passant par le scrutin ordinaire. M. Mendouze représente que, lors de la dernière députation aux Feuillants, on offrit de signer une rétractation ; il demande que ceux qui se présenteront désavouent ce qu'il y avait d'insultant pour la Société dans cette rétractation. (Approuvé généralement.)

M. Thomas. - Et moi aussi, je suis pour la sévérité ; mais, depuis, j'ai eu par moi-même la preuve que plusieurs personnes ont été réellement trompées. J'ai été un des commissaires du Comité de révision, j'ai maintenu les principes de sévérité, j'ai proposé plusieurs fois de prendre un parti quelconque vis-à-vis de ceux qui nous avaient abandonnés ; mais je me disais ce que depuis j'ai reconnu être une vérité, je crois qu'il y en a beaucoup qu'on induit en erreur. Il faut donc trouver un moyen de les distinguer. Je voudrais donc qu'on obligeât les dissidents qui voudraient rentrer à être appuyés par trois membres au lieu d'un, et, lorsqu'ils seraient admis, de rétracter solennellement à la tribune leur déclaration. Ce serait une satisfaction suffisante pour la Société.

... ...

M. Dubois de Crancé. - Votre exemple, Messieurs, sera sans doute suivi par tous les bons députés ; cependant je crois que nous devons recevoir ceux des Feuillants qui sont purs ; ils sont notre bien, nous devons les prendre partout où nous les trouvons. (Aux voix ! aux voix !)

La discussion est fermée ; enfin, après quelques amendements proposés et rejetés, on arrête la proposition faite par plusieurs membres de s'en tenir à un nouveau scrutin pour les réceptions ou les rentrées.

... ...

Feuillants and Jacobins ?

Saint-Just ?
are they the same person ?
[identity profile] sibylla-oo.livejournal.com


A download-able article by Marisa Linton, one of the historians who participated as talking heads in THAT BBC docudrama, on the importance of networks of friendship in revolutionary politics.

1) Do you think filling public posts with friends and countrymen can be qualified as nepotism or it would be an unhistorical interpretation disregarding the context of those times?

2) What was the role of friendship in your opinion?

3) Were Desmoulins and Robespierre really such close friends? And Robespierre and St.Just? Wasn't Robespierre closer to Couthon? What are the historical proofs of the friendship ties between the revolutionaries?

4) Why do British historians of French revolution seem so obsessed with "fatality"? :D 


[identity profile] victoriavandal.livejournal.com
As they ride off into the sunset, I was wondering if anyone else here had ever tried googling 'Neocon Jacobin'? It makes for very...strange...reading. I first came across this sort of thing in 2003, in an article by the loopy Thatcherite-but-changes-with-the-weather 'philosopher' John Gray in the New Statesman (before I cancelled the NS - longstanding flagship mag of the British Left - after their 'Kosher Conspiracy' issue - google 'the new antisemitism' for the grisly details of that fracas). Gray has gone on to write a book on the same lines - 'Black Mass'. There seem to be a number of American and Canadian articles and books (Claes Ryn, whoever he is) on the same lines, coming from the Right. It has also filtered into fiction: a recent film (which I haven't seen, so I'm going on hearsay) by Milos Foreman, and scripted by the bloke who adapted 'Danton', called 'Goya's Ghosts', has Javier Bardem as a Spanish Jacobin type who comes out with lines like 'no liberty for the enemies of liberty' - I gather this is supposed to mean Guantanamo Bay (but as I said, I haven't seen it!). More obviously, it's the undercurrent - if not the raison d'etre - of the long HBO series 'John Adams'. Adams is a peculiar choice for hero of a 9 hour drama, unless you read it as an attack on Neocon foreign policy - he is contrasted throughout with Jefferson: Jefferson wants America to intervene in a foreign war to defend liberty and democracy abroad - Adams 'sensibly' wins and America sits on its hands. 'Oh, if only Bush had been like that', is the subtext - and the reason the series was garlanded with Emmys - 5 years earlier, the pro-war 'The Gathering Storm' had got a similar treatment, which shows how times had changed (that had Churchill as Bush/Blair). The actor playing Jefferson even looks a bit like Bush. The British BBC Radio 4 history of America series went further: in its episode on Adams and Jefferson, it said Adams kept America out of 'the first War on Terror'.

In Britain, Bush has always been seen as a retard cynically motivated by revenge and oil greed, so it's rather amusing to see the American Right portraying him as a dangerous liberal steered by Trotskyist utopian neo-Jacobins. I find it all rather disturbing, though it does add another strange slant to the ruckus that has been going on in the British left, which has been tearing itself to pieces since 2001.
[identity profile] victoriavandal.livejournal.com
That is, John Oswald, Scottish poet, soldier, vegetarian activist, angry Jacobin, who died on 14th September 1793 fighting counter-revolution in the Vendée. He's sadly little known, except by vegetarians (like me!), but I'm going to root out some more stuff on him and, I dunno, write a radio play or something. I mean, hell, his life is a damn sight more interesting than some bloody 'Duchess' played by Keira Knightley, but...no, I feel a rant developing so...

Tom Paine allegedly commented: "Oswald, you have lived so long without tasting flesh you now have a most voracious appetite for blood!". My links seem to be playing up, but googling 'The Cry of Nature' may bring you some joy if you're interested. This may or may not work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Oswald_(activist) !

On a not unrelated note, the English aristocracy still call the foxes they tear to pieces with dogs (it's illegal now, but that hasn't stopped them!) 'Charlie' or 'Charles James', after Pitt's opponent Charles James Fox, Revolution sympathiser; in Tory cartoons of the 1790's Fox was called 'Robespierre' and shown guillotining Tories (if only!) - thus, 200 years on, the act of ripping a small ginger mammal apart with a pack of dogs is the English Tory's way of symbolically destroying the revolution of 1789-94! (Ho hum, when it was banned, a French town applied for an EU grant to expand their airport so English aristocrats could fly into France and carry on killing foxes there!)
[identity profile] toi-marguerite.livejournal.com
 Sorry to spam up the community, citizens, but I'm taking a course called "Reenacting the Past: History as Hypothesis", which means that, basically, I am LARPing as Robespierre for college credit. It's a fascinating course and it raises a host of issues that I thought would be interesting to see discussed in the community.

For one thing, there's trying to solidify the goals and the agenda of the left. I find it really fascinating, particularly since we've been given very few guidelines. So far, all we know is that we must:
a. represent the general will
b. gain control of the Assembly, and 
c. limit the power of the king.

We get to make the rest up, so I'm hitting the history books. Out of curiousity, what do you guys think of the Jacobin agenda? Or rather, what do you think it was, if there was one, what parts of Jacobin ideology absolutely must be represented and which bits are negligable?
[identity profile] maelicia.livejournal.com
Apart from those I already know here, I was wishing to know if anybody else would be interested into discussing political philosophy and theory? Because I'm very much into that (maybe even too much), and it would be fun if there was someone to discuss with, maybe to help sorting out the chaos. I'm quite a beginner, of course, having read very little through Montesquieu and Rousseau.

Just so I specify: I'm working on the political thoughts (but also socio-economical) of Robespierre, Saint-Just and the Jacobins. Trying to understand through historians I can read on the website www.revolution-francaise.net. Of course, it's in French... But some links, in case anybody around can read them: Guilhaumou's "The Hatred of the French Revolution: a Form of Hatred of Democracy", Wannich's "The French Revolution in the Country of Ghost Trains" and Gross's theories on "Terror and Equalitarian Liberalism". I also recommend reading this, also by Gross.

A few thoughts on 'Lire Saint-Just' by Miguel Abensour. )

Btw, anybody speaks French here? Or is from France? Anybody knows French forums -- which are active? (I'm from Québec -- so I speak French. That's why I'm asking.) Because I can hardly believe this LJ community could be the only one in the world? Or is it? -_-;
[identity profile] vulpea-rea.livejournal.com
(Hi, I'm new. Hi, I cross-posted this. Hi, if you've seen it already, my apologies.)

The story is this: A few days ago I ostentatiously safety-pinned a strip of ragged white cloth to the back of my fleece jacket on which I black-sharpied Jacobin Club, and, for added effect, dabbed a subtle bit of red on the left bottom corner. This I’ve been wearing with great glee around campus, in hopes of attracting some other crazies, perhaps, and so far I’m pleased about the amount of recognition (I think I’ve even found a Saint-Just fanboy.)

However! It didn’t take long before I was worrying about more Thermidorean times. (No, not like that. Heat-wise, I mean.) I can’t be a flagrant Jacobin in the heat – a T-shirt was in order. So I opened a Café Press shop ten minutes ago. So far there’s only a Club babydoll shirt. I was thinking also of making a version with a guillotine on the back, maybe. And probably I should add other shirt options, not just babydoll. And there’ll be more goodies to come once I think of something else that’s faintly witty. If anyone’s actually interested and would like to see more stuff, let me hear your ideas. WHAHAHAHA! Ahem.



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