[identity profile] citoyenneclark.livejournal.com
Hi! So I'm working on a paper about Saint-Just, (specifically the myths and his portrayal in the Black Book, how they are historically accurate, or not, and what historians think about SJ.) Yes...all this in 6 pages. (in one week) but don't get me started. Firstly, I was wondering if anyone knew where to find a full version of Charles Nodier's text about SJ. Historians seem to use bits and pieces, but I can't find the full version. (Is it in his/Alexander Dumas book the blue and the white?)

Secondly, I was wondering if any of you could suggest thermidorian sources, and sympathetic sources on SJ? I've decided/was assigned to divided the paper into 2 main parts, the things that the movie gets right, and the things they get wrong.

As for getting vaguely correct:
They portray SJ as a man of action
And show him to be a natty dresser/vanity

For the incorrect:
he's a bloodthirsty, sadistic kitten kicker
He's Robespierre's henchman
He's the life of the party.

I'm planning to use Curtis's book to disprove the henchman part. The issue is that a lot of the sources and antidotes on SJ, specifically about the EVIL! part, are all either really biased, or just bizare. And that goes for both sides of the debate. I'm thinking of using Gateau's writing about him, after he was executed, but that's a suspect piece also, and defiantly not impartial.

Currently I'm using Thompson's Leaders of the French Revolution, Palmer, and Hampson's books. Do you think this is even possible? >_<
Thanks everyone. Input is much much much appreciated.

Edit: seems spellcheck autmomatically changed Nodier's spelling. Fixed that.thanks!

Danton ST?

Oct. 7th, 2010 10:36 pm
[identity profile] amie-de-rimbaud.livejournal.com
 So, as weird as it is, I've always kind of liked the soundtrack to the Wajda Danton film. Yeah, I know, it's just a bunch of ominous clanging noises. Anyway, I've seen it on eBay as an LP, but does anyone know if it's available to download anywhere? I checked on iTunes and couldn't find it. 
[identity profile] missweirdness.livejournal.com
Okay i have to ask..because i don't think anyone has..

*look around the corners suspiciously*

Since i've been recently for the whole weekend, nursing a bad infection thus staying in bed like Maxime xD I thought..

why not?

anyhow, from any french revolutionary film, what is your favorite portrayal of Maxime or Saint-Just or Camille?

I have to think upon t his..>.>no i know it! I like Andrzej Seweryn as Maxime in La révolution française =0
[identity profile] maelicia.livejournal.com
Heard about it a lot, but I never bothered to see it. Because I have enough migraines. So here it is, on a very random Chinese YouTube (?!):

First part: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTIxNzY3NDQ=.html

Second part: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTIxNzY3Njg=.html

It's in the beginning of the second part, at 3:15, that we see the amazingly random appearance of the "trimvirate" of the CSP. Gotta love how Saint-Just is introduced as "The most awe-inspiring figure of the Terror: Saint-Just. (played by Abel Gance)" (Abel Gance should've kept his cosplaying for his bedroom, really) after which we see him playing around with a rose and fluttering his eyelids. How awe-inspiring. Gotta also love how they then introduce Couthon as "...with Saint-Just, one of the most influential members of the Committee of Public Safety", followed by that scene of him molesting that bunny. Oh dear. How influential.

I would like to say that Terror! Robespierre and the French Revolution can truly rival with it as far as historical accuracy and sense are concerned. Seriously. You can really understand from watching it why they'd thinking of fitting footage of it in their v. srs. historical documentary based on v. srs. historical sources. Rly.

Also, I give a special award to That Guy--

--who screams "Death to Saint-Just! Death to Robespierre! Death to the two monsters!" (Accuracy, of course.) Isn't he just amazing?

And another thing:

...Wait, what? O.o;;
[identity profile] maelicia.livejournal.com
Finally!! I just found an extract online of the amazing La Terreur et la Vertu, near the ending of the second part "Robespierre".

This is the antidote needed after Terror! Robespierre and the French Revolution.

This is Saint-Just -- with natural authority, dignity, and a grand, tragic, resolute and sublime aura:

My translation of the dialogue:

COUTHON – Yes, write. (reciting) “Citizen-soldiers, generals and officers, armies of the Republic. The National Convention has fallen in the hands of rascals...”

(Couthon's voice fades, as Robespierre slowly walks to Saint-Just, who's standing near the window of the Hôtel de Ville.)

ROBESPIERRE – Why don’t you say anything?

SAINT-JUST – You know it. “In the name of the French people…” What people? It is not here.

ROBESPIERRE – Why did you follow me?

SAINT-JUST – “You, who sustain the fragile patrie against the torrents of despotism and intrigue… I do not know you, but you are a great man. You are not only the deputy of a province; you are the one of humanity, and of the Republic.”

ROBESPIERRE – What is this?

SAINT-JUST – You don’t remember?


SAINT-JUST – One day, back in 1790, a young man from Blérancourt wrote a letter to a deputy he admired through his speeches. This deputy; it was you, Robespierre. This young man; it was I.

ROBESPIERRE – So, you wrote to me?

SAINT-JUST – And I did not change.

ROBESPIERRE – I was the loneliest man of the Constituante. And now, I am alone again. Always.


ROBESPIERRE – Everything is lost, isn’t it?

SAINT-JUST – Yes, it is lost. It could not be otherwise. Considering who we are, both of us. Considering what we think.

ROBESPIERRE – Why didn’t you help us? Give us any advice?

SAINT-JUST – We possessed seventeen companies of gunners and thirty-two cannons. The Convention only had one company. We had to, at 19:00, lead two companies in front of the main door of the Convention; at the East door, one company; at the West door, two companies. We had to, at 19:30, invade the committees and immediately arrest all the members. We had to, at 19:45, invade the Convention, proclaim the Constitution of 1793 and outlaw Tallien, Fréron, Barras and all the other rotten scoundrels. We had to send, at the School of Mars, two companies to rally the students, the officers and the troops. We had to, at 20:00, in Paris, proclaim the triumph of the Commune. And the Insurrection of the Apathetic would have been crowned the Insurrection of the Bold.

ROBESPIERRE – And you did nothing?

SAINT-JUST – If I had, would you have approved it?


SAINT-JUST – The People of 10 August had the right to invade the Tuileries. The People of the 31 May and of the 5 September, had the right to invade the Convention. Not the armies.


SAINT-JUST – Today, all that was left to us was the dictatorship of the armies. The military dictatorship. We would have been suspended in a void. Robespierre, consul of the Republic. Saint-Just, consul of the Republic.

ROBESPIERRE – Of which Republic?

Edit: And if someone feels adventurous enough to watch it all in French without subtitles, I think I just found the whole second film online: http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/xrrkt_star_vin_la-revolution-francaise

This is brilliant. And how apt.
[identity profile] amie-de-rimbaud.livejournal.com

There have been quite a few discussions about the various film interpretations of the Revolution--the good, the bad, and the ugly--but here’s a new twist on things:  if you were going to make a movie about our fabulous revolutionary guys (and girls)....who would you cast to play your favorite?

It’s driving me crazy that I can’t think of a good actor to play Camille--as far as physical features are concerned anyway. None of my favorite actors resemble him in the least. He’s attractive to me, but that’s because of, well, all those aspects of him--his character--that are deeper than appearance. “He had a bilious complexion, like Robespierre’s, a hard and sinister eye, more like that of the osprey than that of the eagle,” according to one contemporary. Ouch! (Royalist propaganda, I say). I don’t think he’s *that* unfortunate-looking in his portraits, even if he’s not *handsome* in the conventional sense.

But then, his “ugliness” was supposedly a kind of “intellectual ugliness that pleases.” I think he’s really just *awkward*--in terms of his face (and sometimes in his behavior, too). However, it was the kind of “awkwardness that pleases” (hehe). So, after thinking hard about it, I think a good actor to play Camille in a movie would be...

...and the Oscar goes to... )

[identity profile] victoriavandal.livejournal.com
Coo-er, they have finally got round to releasing La Revolution Francaise on DVD (region 2) http://www.amazon.fr/revolution-fran%C3%A7aise-partie-2/dp/B001UTVP7M/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t I can't see any time listing there, so I'm assuming it's the shorter(?)French cinema version rather than the TV-series version.
[identity profile] wolfshadow713.livejournal.com
Does anyone know if it's available in the US/Canada on DVD?
[identity profile] maelicia.livejournal.com
Following screencaps found here: http://antoine-saint-just.fr/films/charny.html



*horrified choked gasp of death*

*falls dead*

Sorry, but all I can say is: OH MY FUCKING SUPREME BEING.

Rant: Where is their source that says Saint-Just wore make-up à la Pompadour? I want to know. Not even Lamartine/Michelet/Nodier/Duval wrote that.

And, apparently, Saint-Just is still being "farouche". Duval's description lives:

Here's a translation of what the website has to say about it (for those who can't read French): The character of Saint-Just has a minimal and mute role in the series "La Comtesse de Charny", shown on TF1 in june-july 1989 for the Bicentenial. He doesn't even appear in the end credits. However, whoever has read the homonymous triology by Alexandre Dumas will recognise him in this dark, prim and excessively made-up young man, at the side of Robespierre. Dumas is clearly inspired by Michelet: his Saint-Just is a beautiful, effeminated young man, but not soft, leaving the impression of an automaton with his unnatural rigidity and, especially, bearing a cold and gloomy look as a being that just escaped from a grave. A real "Archangel of Death"... and it's exactly the image that the series present us.

In his novel, Dumas makes Saint-Just appear in the beginnings of the Revolution as he passes an initiatic rite to a masonic lodge, then during the September Massacres, which he coldly justifies to an emotional Robespierre, before quietly going to sleep, the night when hundreds of men die. In the series, we see him the first time on 17 july 1789, when Louis XVI goes at the Hôtel de Ville. He is welcomed by Bailly, of course, but also by Marat (!), Danton (!!) and Robespierre (!!!) next to which we see this silent and haughty "beauty" which isn't difficult to identify. After, we see the same characters reunited in a sort of Committee of Public Safety before the time, where Saint-Just always keeps his place next to the Incorruptible, mouth shut and fierce looking.


It's Stepford!Saint-Just.


Mar. 24th, 2009 11:10 am
[identity profile] jonahmama.livejournal.com
For those of you who are fans of Andrzej Wajda's film, "Danton," or have never had the chance to see it but would like to, it will be released on DVD next week, March 31, by Criterion Collection (in region 1 USA and Canada format).  It will be available on Amazon.com for about $35.00.  Devoted fans of the film cite its charms as: Saint-Just wearing eye make-up! Camille calling Robespierre a prostitute! and Gerard Depardieu in the title role! This posting, however, is not intended as an endorsment of the movie for either its entertainment value or its historical accuracy. Viewer discretion is advised. 
[identity profile] hanriotfran.livejournal.com
  Yesterday, I was thinking about persons who takes stills from French revolution movies and post them in the net. I'm very grateful to them, since time to time, I want to see these without having any need to see the movies themselves, and also to have my own archive of images from fiction and French Revolution for historical purposes.

   But I find that even if these photos are great (and some of a very good quality, better than professional ones), they are not complete. Most of them are stills of Robespierre and Saint-Just (of course, we all admire them thourougly) and sometimes, of Camille or Danton, but there's not stills from other characters or at least, few of them.  I wish I could see more stills from Lebas, Babette, Eléonore, Monsieur Duplay, Augustin , Amar, Mme. Duplay, Vadier, Collot,Billaud, Carnot, Lindet, Fouquier, Hermann, Fabre, Fouché, Barras, Fréron, Mme. Tallien and (of course!), my beloved one, Hanriot (from "La Terreur et la Vertu", the other one is just creepy)...just to make an avatar of him (Muahahaha). It could be useful to also post some good stills of many imprtant events of the Revolution as the fall of the Bastille, 20 June, 10 August and so on...What do you think about it? I mean stills from all movies we've seen as "La Terreur et la Vertu" (my very favorite, by far), "Saint-Just ou la Force des Choses", "Liberté, Fraternité and Choucroute", "Danton" "La Revolution Française" , "Marie-Antoinette"   etc.

If I could know how to do it, I should do it, but my computer skills are near to zero....Some months ago, I was not even able to post pictures from a site, so think I had evolutioned!



Jan. 7th, 2009 06:25 pm
[identity profile] victoriavandal.livejournal.com
Has anyone here ever seen this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Start_the_Revolution_Without_Me
Is it as dire as I fear it'll be, or is it a hidden gem, a 'Blazing Saddles' of the French Rev ? The cast looks excellent, though that's no guarantee of quality because a lot of good actors paid the rent with some truly excremental movies in the 1970's (and Orson Welles advertised lager). The working title was 'Louis, there's a crowd downstairs'. The links also mention another in a similar vein, Cheech and Chong doing 'The Corsican Brothers', which I'd never heard of either, but I've never been able to sit through a Cheech and Chong movie anyway.

I do like Carry On Don't Lose Your Head, though: it's a piss-take on the Scarlet Pimpernel films and managed to get a naughty word past the censors (oo-er missus!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTCe3RBoOLk&feature=related
[identity profile] victoriavandal.livejournal.com
"Toulon, 1793..."
I may have mentioned this somewhere before, but it was on TV again this afternoon which gave me a chance to get angry and shout at the TV set (to the amusement of friends) all over again. And I've just found it online, so now you can, too, if you want to: http://en.sevenload.com/videos/jFzYVFP-Heroes-and-Villains-Napoleon (that seems to be the whole hour). Yes, the chappie gloating sadistically over the guillotine at the start is Fréron, the pantomime 'villain' of the title, and it was a nice surprise to find this obscure but horrible git the central baddie of the piece (a rare 'serious' (ahem) role for comedian Rob Brydon), but that's where the jollity ends, because, readers, viewers, despite the occasional positive role for the CSP in this little drama, nasty Fréron is here meant to incarnate the 'nasty' Revolution itself. Bummer!

(And no, Augustin Robespierre doesn't get a mention, 'cos if he did it would have to be in a 'positive' context that would screw up the whole 'revolutionaries are pervy little bureaucrats' line of the script...!)

It looks fabulous, though, damn it - why does the devil have the best cinematographers?
[identity profile] livviebway.livejournal.com
I am pleased to bring you La Révolution Française on youtube! It is the French version, so I apologize for anyone who doesn't speak French, but I still think it's worth watching because I'm sure all of us know the story well enough to follow it. In some of the videos the audio and the video are just a teensy bit off, but it's not too bad and it's not in all of them.
[identity profile] livviebway.livejournal.com
I just discovered the website Video INA, it is an archive of French television and radio programs online, from which you can download programs either to rent (48 hours for 2 euros) or buy (6 euros). It has a whole bunch of really rare stuff, including....

Saint-Just et la Force des Choses (Part 1)

Saint-Just et la Force des Choses (Part 2)

La Terreur et la Vertu (Danton)

La Terreur et la Vertu (Robespierre)

The extra benefit of this is that it downloads it as a DivX file, which you can then burn to a dvd, as opposed to buying a French Region 2 DVD that might not work with a US dvd player. The site's a little confusing, but I figured it out.

These movies are, of course, all in French without subtitles.
[identity profile] livviebway.livejournal.com
While not doing my homework last night, I ran across a youtube knock off site where a couple people had very nicely uploaded clips from the French version of La Révolution Française. Since that movie can be ridiculously hard to get a hold of, I made a playlist of them to gather them all together and arrange them in order. Enjoy some clips!

La Révolution Française
[identity profile] maelicia.livejournal.com
I'll make a different post for this.

I also bring to you some sound extracts (no image) from the film. [livejournal.com profile] juliesaintjust made them. Once again, I only uploaded them. However, I was crazy enough to translate them. You’ll find the transcriptions of my translation under the cuts. :D

I have more sound extracts, but now I'll start with those I have about 9-10 thermidor.

Click on the pics (matching the scenes) to download the sound extracts.

Night of 8 thermidor: Le Bas, Saint-Just, Élisabeth. )

The morning of 9 thermidor. )

9 thermidor: the insurrection of the Hôtel de Ville. )

9 thermidor: Robespierre arrives at the Hôtel de Ville. )

9 to 10 thermidor: last hours of the insurrection. )

10 thermidor: a farewell with the Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizens of 1793. )
[identity profile] maelicia.livejournal.com
Thus I wish to share with you the 1964 TV movie La Terreur et la Vertu by Stellio Lorenzi and Alain Decaux.

Ah, the 1960s! The glorious decade of the victorious left! When the revolutionary, republican and jacobin tradition reigned over historiography!... Long before Furet’s Reaction, which brought with it films such as Wajda’s "Danton", Enrico’s "La Révolution française", De Broca’s "Chouans", Rohmer’s "L’Anglaise et le Duc", Jacquot’s "Sade", Coppola’s "Marie-Antoinette" and the Supreme Being Knows What could be next. Meh.

But that is another story. Back to La Terreur et la Vertu.

I begin with screencaps, which were made by [livejournal.com profile] estellacat. I only uploaded them. :D (And yet, it was very, very, very long. >.> )

Behind this cut, thumbnails of the film. )
[identity profile] maelicia.livejournal.com
Wajda’s Danton: a film that some of you must have seen. I believe the annoying voice of the historian must be heard, once again: this film is no sheer amusement, it is politics. And, whenever politics are involved – especially more so with the French Revolution – it demands sufficient information from every point of view in order to participate to the creation of critical sense.

This said, I post my translation of Michel Vovelle’s review of Wajda’s Danton. I prefer to let him speak and to describe the film, considering I am much more insulting and find it repulsive in all aspects – especially since the watching of that movie made me ill for a week. The only way in which I found that movie good is how it did prove Wajda’s mental trauma caused by Polish communism. Nevertheless, I shall stop here. Because Vovelle is more neutral, where I completely fail to be. He also enlightens us greatly with the summary of the historiographical debates around Danton and Robespierre, as well as why the Enragés and Hébertistes could be ignored in Wajda's film.

Also, forgive my translation: it's very likely far from being perfect but, again, I tried to translate it with some sense, while keeping as close as possible to the original text...

In this point of view, the temptation was to return, in spite of ourselves, in spite of the inner fight that can be felt all through the film, to a black and white opposition: on one side Danton, or the Revolution with a human face, on the other Robespierre, or the cold-hearted and dehumanised Revolution. And this is what troubles me when I watch this very beautiful film which will be, for thousands of people, the discovery of the French Revolution. )


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