(no subject)

[tearosefury.livejournal.com]

In a convo with a friend of mine on AIM last night, after being asked if the film Danton was ambiguous in not clearly taking sides, I said this:

EccentricBeauty9: Well, it's about the Terror

EccentricBeauty9: So, *lol* by consequence yes, to a certain degree

EccentricBeauty9: Danton is lionized to a certain extent

EccentricBeauty9: But Robespierre is also treated more sympathically than you could, theoretically, treat him

EccentricBeauty9: But everyone has a soft spot for Robespierre (by everyone I mean, those who study the Revolution; most of us at least) so, that makes sense

 Would you agree that this is for the most part true, that most of us to some degree are a bit of a sucker for Robespierre? Or are there some hard core anti-Robespierrists out there?

Comments

[jesta-ariadne.livejournal.com]

Ooh, interesting. Hmm... I wouldn't be surprised if most people here do :) I think overall and historically Robespierre has more a habit of just totally polarizing a lot of people to one extreme point of view or another... Very strong opinions on both sides. And those that try to be objective - or just 'non-extreme', for whatever reason - tend get really, really confused =) (See The Life and Opinions of Maximilien Robespierre by Norman Hampson. V. good!)

(I haven't seen the film Danton... :( What did you think of it?? I only know that it was based in some way on Stanisława Przybyszewska's 'The Danton Case', which I have read. But am I right in thinking that while she was a HUGE fan of Robespierre, the film changed quite a bit of those elements?)

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

There are definitely many anti-Robespierristes; more than there are Robespierristes.....But the few small ways in which Robespierre could be considered to have been treated sympathetically do not add up to an overall sympathetic portrayal in Danton. The filmmakers give him several traits of a Polish Communist from the time Danton was made, while Danton, whom the filmmakers clearly want the audience to sympathize with is given those of the opposition leader in 1980s Poland. As several reviewers have remarked, Danton says more about Poland in the 1980s than France in the 1790s. Thus, in Danton to the extent that Robespierre does represent the actual historical figure, one gets the sense, watching the film, that the filmmakers are trying to be somewhat sympathetic to a character they dislike overall for the sake of nuance.

...Sorry if that was a bit convoluted, but the principle is, as far as Danton really relates relates to the Revolution, it's from a Dantoniste perspective.

[tearosefury.livejournal.com]

Right, I knew that the significance of the film was largely tied up with what was going on in Poland, and that Danton is defintley the hero of the fil, BUT:

But, I also feel that Robiespierre is defintley not demonized in the film either. Although he is seen as a man posessed by his own sense of decency and power, he is also portrayed as becoming so possessed for reasons less simplistic than a simple desire to dominate. For example, in the final scene, where he responds to St. Just's calls for him to become a dictator with despair, not enthuasium (although that particular detail was probably pushing St. Just's proclivities toward such a thing, at his expense).

And yeah, even though the movie was made in part to make contmeporary political points, I think it is still a very thoughtful, significant contribution to the debate surrounding Revolutionary France itself.

[mercredimatin.livejournal.com]

i am absolutely a sucker for robespierre.

[kurotoshi.livejournal.com]

Haha, I am SUCH a sucker for Robespierre it's ridiculous! but I'm also a sucker for Marat, which is a rare as ..I wish I could think of something witty right now, BUT I cannot!

[citoyenne.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm quite an anti-robespierrist actually, but when I put aside my all my principles, I enjoy loving him. If we're talking politics and what he actually did I'm anti, but I have sympathy with the man Robespierre. I find him interesting with all his faults and virtues, like any other humans.
...aand I take it very personal that he executed Manon Roland, mhm.

[jonahmama.livejournal.com]

I feel the sudden urge to rush to Estellacat's aid here! :)

First of all, I will readily confess to absolutely loving Robespierre and sharing the perspective that he was much misunderstood and unjustly maligned both in his own time and today. While nearly all the other key revolutionaries have received streets / statues named after them in Paris (and many also in their birthplaces), there has yet to be a rue Robespierre (actually I think one working-class suburb named a tiny street after him, but it got renamed after much controversy). His person and politics remain to this day a lightning rod for controversy (ooh a nice figure of speech if you know his early life :) ), and he attracts many, many more detractors than fans. Unfortunately films such as "Danton," which attempt to connect him to the Communist/Facist movement, do nothing to set the record straight. The fact that Communist leaders, including Lenin, borrowed freely from his and Saint-Just's speeches in particular (one of Lenin's is practically a word-for-word repetition of Saint-Just's speech proposing the Laws of Prairial, if memory serves), only serves to cement the popular misconception that Robespierre was ultimately a tyrant who committed atrocities in the name of the "people."

True, the film "Danton" is not rabidly anti-Robespierrist, but that's about the best that can be said of it. I agree that it would be very hard to cram the Revolution into feature length in any accurate or meaningful way. Since this film doesn't even try, as history it is barely useful. Professors assign it for viewing for two reasons: 1. there is virtually nothing else much better out there on the subject 2. it does show how the Revolution continues to have relevance in the modern world. From a historical study point of view, "The French Revolution" ("La Revolution Francaise") would be a better starting point. It too is wildly inaccurate in many places, but it is a step up. For one thing, it does start at the beginning, rather than in the middle.

As for "Danton" from a cinematic point-of-view, I must confess a bias in actually being in the movie industry, but I think it is mediocre at best. I can't stand Gerard Depardieu, and I know I am not alone (though admittedly this is better than "Green Card"). If you've done some reading on what Danton was really like, you will see in places his characterization amounts to laughable caricature (I recall a drinking scene in particular). The rest of the acting is ok, but the cast overall is way too old - most visibly in their 40's - when the revolutionaries were really very young men, most in their 30's (some younger). I honestly couldn't tell Desmoulins and Saint-Just apart half the time, which is a problem. (Note to self: If you're going to have two cute young men in your movie, they should look really different, so you can keep track of which hottie is which.) Overall, the film lacks the amazing charisma, lustre, frenzied pace, hightened and conflicted emotions which were the hallmarks of these people and this time. It feels like most history: old men in awkward clothes speaking stilted, literary-sounding dialogue. Try to picture it more like the "West Wing": young, brilliant, energetic, sharp individuals who exude charisma speaking eloquent, intelligent, often witty dialogue and moving at a breathtaking pace through a series of intense moments.

<3

[(Anonymous)]

I just started learning about Robespierre in my Socials 9 class, and to me, it sounds like he meant well, but was rather forced by the circumstances to make choices that people frowned upon.

That aside... has anyone else noticed the parallels between Robespierre and Obama? Just putting that out there...