1. This the first time I've heard it out-right described as a "fictional biography of Camille" although, upon reflection, that would seem to be what it is. (The emphasis placed on Robespierre and Danton can throw one off until one realizes that they were the two major influences on his life for at least the later stages of the Revolution.) 2. What you said about quoting her--I do that too. The knowledge that I'll never be able to write like that is positively maddening;) 3. It's funny you should say that, because I've found this to be one of the most unlikeable portrayals of Saint-Just in any novel I've read (barring Marjorie Coryn's The Incorruptible, the alternate title of which--Ridiculous Dictator--should give some idea of its view; and The Gods Are Thirsty by Tanith Lee--although I tend to discount anything said about Saint-Just from what is actively and explicitly Camille's point of view....When Robespierre starts to dislike him, though, as he does in A Place of Greater Safety I begin to get suspicious). As far as plays go, Pauvre Bitos isn't exactly sympathetic to Saint-Just, but then again, one gets the impression that Anouilh doesn't know anything about the personage from reading it. Movies, admittedly are another story, but I find them to be more extremist than books in their portrayals of the Revolutionaries generally; in what book would one find Robespierre hiding a torture chamber under a bakery as he does in The Black Book? 4/5. I should mention, before I go into detailed analysis of any kind that if Mantel is counterrevolutionary I would say it's pretty near to impossible that it was intentional on her part. It's the fault of her sources; just about any source you can find in English will measure the Revolution against the Anglo-American model(s) of governments, ethics, and culture. This is a given. However, I'm convinced that this is a tenuous way to look at the Revolution, at best. It's worse, of course, then it might be otherwise because despite England and America's history and literature (and who raised in the English-speaking world doesn't have A Tale of Two Cities indelibly etched into his brain?), the authors and historians of these countries claim the objectivity of those not directly involved. This assumption makes even the best of the English historians inferior to the French, who realize their involvement and use it to aid their understanding. Many people in the English-speaking world can thus devote their lives to collecting facts on the French Revolution and still never truly understand it. Thus, I find it imperative to take what any British or American historian says with a grain of salt; if some people have not come to this conclusion and choose to believe supposedly "objective" English sources, they are not counterrevolutionary in the same way someone like Taine (who obviously realized his status in this group) was, but their writings can sound remarkably like those of the French counterrevolutionary historians nonetheless.
I would be glad to discuss this further; I was actually considering a detailed analysis of the book, to do just as you described. I don't know too much of the accuracy of the scenes involving Camille and Danton, since they are not my area of expertise (I do know that a scene in regards to Camille's marriage was pulled practically word for word from a translation my sister has of Claretie's biography of Camille). I know this is the bulk of the book, but there is plenty concerning Robespierre as well. This is where the errors and overly negative (without evidence) characterizations come in to play. From my research (for a novel I'm planning on writing) I think I can safely say I know as much about the Duplays as someone who doesn't have access to archives can, as well as a great deal of information concerning Robespierre, Saint-Just, Le Bas, Couthon (who is conspicuously absent from A Place of Greater Safety), general facts about life in the era of the Revolution, what historians of all stripes have said about it, and what I have been able to learn of the art and music of the time period. ....So, by now I can pretty much tell if a scene concerning any of those is accurate.
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2006-10-04 01:52 am (UTC)2. What you said about quoting her--I do that too. The knowledge that I'll never be able to write like that is positively maddening;)
3. It's funny you should say that, because I've found this to be one of the most unlikeable portrayals of Saint-Just in any novel I've read (barring Marjorie Coryn's The Incorruptible, the alternate title of which--Ridiculous Dictator--should give some idea of its view; and The Gods Are Thirsty by Tanith Lee--although I tend to discount anything said about Saint-Just from what is actively and explicitly Camille's point of view....When Robespierre starts to dislike him, though, as he does in A Place of Greater Safety I begin to get suspicious). As far as plays go, Pauvre Bitos isn't exactly sympathetic to Saint-Just, but then again, one gets the impression that Anouilh doesn't know anything about the personage from reading it. Movies, admittedly are another story, but I find them to be more extremist than books in their portrayals of the Revolutionaries generally; in what book would one find Robespierre hiding a torture chamber under a bakery as he does in The Black Book?
4/5. I should mention, before I go into detailed analysis of any kind that if Mantel is counterrevolutionary I would say it's pretty near to impossible that it was intentional on her part. It's the fault of her sources; just about any source you can find in English will measure the Revolution against the Anglo-American model(s) of governments, ethics, and culture. This is a given. However, I'm convinced that this is a tenuous way to look at the Revolution, at best. It's worse, of course, then it might be otherwise because despite England and America's history and literature (and who raised in the English-speaking world doesn't have A Tale of Two Cities indelibly etched into his brain?), the authors and historians of these countries claim the objectivity of those not directly involved. This assumption makes even the best of the English historians inferior to the French, who realize their involvement and use it to aid their understanding. Many people in the English-speaking world can thus devote their lives to collecting facts on the French Revolution and still never truly understand it. Thus, I find it imperative to take what any British or American historian says with a grain of salt; if some people have not come to this conclusion and choose to believe supposedly "objective" English sources, they are not counterrevolutionary in the same way someone like Taine (who obviously realized his status in this group) was, but their writings can sound remarkably like those of the French counterrevolutionary historians nonetheless.
I would be glad to discuss this further; I was actually considering a detailed analysis of the book, to do just as you described. I don't know too much of the accuracy of the scenes involving Camille and Danton, since they are not my area of expertise (I do know that a scene in regards to Camille's marriage was pulled practically word for word from a translation my sister has of Claretie's biography of Camille). I know this is the bulk of the book, but there is plenty concerning Robespierre as well. This is where the errors and overly negative (without evidence) characterizations come in to play. From my research (for a novel I'm planning on writing) I think I can safely say I know as much about the Duplays as someone who doesn't have access to archives can, as well as a great deal of information concerning Robespierre, Saint-Just, Le Bas, Couthon (who is conspicuously absent from A Place of Greater Safety), general facts about life in the era of the Revolution, what historians of all stripes have said about it, and what I have been able to learn of the art and music of the time period.
....So, by now I can pretty much tell if a scene concerning any of those is accurate.