And starring in the role of....
Jun. 18th, 2009 10:40 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
amie-de-rimbaud.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
revolution_frThere have been quite a few discussions about the various film interpretations of the Revolution--the good, the bad, and the ugly--but here’s a new twist on things: if you were going to make a movie about our fabulous revolutionary guys (and girls)....who would you cast to play your favorite?
It’s driving me crazy that I can’t think of a good actor to play Camille--as far as physical features are concerned anyway. None of my favorite actors resemble him in the least. He’s attractive to me, but that’s because of, well, all those aspects of him--his character--that are deeper than appearance. “He had a bilious complexion, like Robespierre’s, a hard and sinister eye, more like that of the osprey than that of the eagle,” according to one contemporary. Ouch! (Royalist propaganda, I say). I don’t think he’s *that* unfortunate-looking in his portraits, even if he’s not *handsome* in the conventional sense.
But then, his “ugliness” was supposedly a kind of “intellectual ugliness that pleases.” I think he’s really just *awkward*--in terms of his face (and sometimes in his behavior, too). However, it was the kind of “awkwardness that pleases” (hehe). So, after thinking hard about it, I think a good actor to play Camille in a movie would be...
Adrien Brody! Ok, he doesn’t look exactly like Camille--his nose is a little bit too big, but it has that similar kind of aquiline look as Camille’s, he has those great eyes, and could totally pull off the long black hair. But more importantly (after being superficial for the whole of this post), he’s a truly great actor. What do you think?
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Date: 2009-06-19 03:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-19 07:32 am (UTC)(as in, when I first saw that picture I literally thought "He has eyes like Amalric!", only now, of course, I can't find a decent picture of the latter that really does them justice - they're like these large round shiny dark buttons, every second you think they might roll away, but in fact they're almost frighteningly still)
==>
The hair's easy to get right, the age is about right, the mouth, the ... the lines around the nose! (Though the general shape of his head might not be round enough.) And having spent a two-and-a-half hour film between hospital bed and wheelchair moving only one eye ["Le scaphandre et le papillon"] he might be just about capable of spending, say, a third or a quarter of a film in a bathtub.
Unfortunately I can't think of anyone who'd make a halfway decent film featuring Marat these days (I mean, other than as a passing curiosity, à la Saint-Just in Godard's "Weekend").
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Date: 2009-06-19 10:25 am (UTC)I looooove Adrien Brody! :)
I think he's not exactly handsome, but I find him (and his nose XD) attractive! Great election for Camille, and a very good actor also ;)
I have been thinking about Jonathan Rhys Meyers making my Saint-Just :3 I know that there isn't exactly a resemble between them (because Jonathan is VERY handsome, in a girlie way, and Saint-Just really wasn't that handsome, he was attractive in an sculptural way) but they share the cold, angelical kind of beauty. Meyers has in his eyes the power and strength that I think Antoine would have in his... *sigh*
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Date: 2009-06-19 10:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-19 10:32 am (UTC)Gallery at JRM fansite :)
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Date: 2009-06-19 10:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-19 11:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-19 11:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-19 06:21 pm (UTC)I.e. Camille is much, much easier to cast, because he has a personality aka a list of character traits that can be acted by just about anyone with some talent. The charismatic ones are harder - Danton has the "look at and listen to me" vibe that you get from preachers and pundits, Robespierre is famously uncharismatic except for his utter and apparent devotion to the cause (also hard to play, but not as hard as personal charisma), and Marat became insanely popular.
My usual rule of thumb is that the actor can reach true charisma if they can stand on a screen and make you want to follow them wherever they may lead, just by force of will and despite whatever they're saying. It's a hard reach - even for a good actor, of which there are plenty good actors but few truly charismatic actors. I'm not familiar with this actor, so I can't judge, but what do you think?
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Date: 2009-06-19 06:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-19 06:30 pm (UTC)*shrug* Well, everyone has their own cast. ^^;; My personal distaste for his acting style (it was the Tudors. I liked him a lot before he did the Tudors. then...*stab*) doesn't mean he might not be good in it.
...I've just reread the comment before posting and realized it might be offensive. Please don't take offense at it; it's just my opinion! (I'd love to chat through alternatives/second choices, not to mention casting for everyone else, though! This is one of my favorite games.)
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Date: 2009-06-19 06:43 pm (UTC)Hmm. I'll have to try him out with long hair in photoshop, see how it works, before making up my mind.
Here's my question, though: who do you cast as the rest of them? Robespierre, Saint-Just, Marat, etc?
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Date: 2009-06-19 06:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-19 07:09 pm (UTC)I'll have to think a little more about the others. What do *you* think?
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Date: 2009-06-19 07:27 pm (UTC)Actors that do have this quality (alongside general acting chops) are are dying breed, though. I think Orson Welles in his later years would have made a remarkable Danton, physically and otherwise.
I keep wanting to cast Tom Hollander as someone or other because he played powdered so sweetly (and shortly!) in the generally abysmal "Pirates of the Carribean" sequels, but ... he's too camp! (Another one who might be able to play completely against his type but as of yet hasn't done a lot in the way of proving it.)
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Date: 2009-06-19 07:30 pm (UTC)Younger Gary Oldman? Hmm. *needs to look up pictures* If anything, I would say that Gary Oldman is too conventionally pretty, and his face is a bit rounder than I would have pictured for Robespierre (especially when he's thin and sickly and haggard in the later part of the Revolution) - but I admit my major reason for rejecting the idea was the immediate thought of "But if we cast a vampire as Robespierre, the Thermidorians win!" XD
I'm working on my thoughts on the subject - every time I sit down for a nice, thorough IMDB search, some sort of crisis happens! I'll need to get back to you on that - though if you'd like to IMDB hunt together on IM sometime, I'm at riderriddle on AIM or yahoo and am on during the evenings, if you're interested! ^_^
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Date: 2009-06-19 07:56 pm (UTC)With Marat, I usually think of the "carried by the ecstatic masses" scene. If I can't see an actor doing that - and having a blast with it - then they aren't qualified. I suspect from your comments that he could play a visually striking Marat-in-bathtub, but not when he's out and active. ^^ I really need to see more movies...
I should see the PoTC movies, if only to see what people keep talking about. ^^ But I know what you mean - there are a couple of actors that I keep wanting to cast, but can't quite find the right person for it...
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Date: 2009-06-19 08:43 pm (UTC)Oh, PoTC. If you've never ever seen the first one, watch the first one and pretend the others DO NOT EXIST. The sequels (though they do come with a tentacle-faced Bill Nighy and a short and camp Tom Hollander and the semblance of an anti-capitalist-anti-globalisation-and-whatnot message ... possibly) cast a terrible, cheap and silly and blatantly, brutally sell-outish light on what was at first a fantastically entertaining and surprisingly original family adventure film. (It's probably ridiculous to consider one family adventure film more of a sell-out than another as opposed to judging them by [entertainment] quality regardless of presumed commercial expectations, but it does make sense if you've seen them.) Laughter abounds, but everything that was refreshingly different in the first, every memorable scene of genuine, quirky humour, is repeated or referenced in such an over-the-top and shallow fashion it degrades the characters to the worst parodies of themselves. (Off-topic rant ends here.)
That said, I've just decided that Richard Griffiths might make a decent Mirabeau. (Apart from the fact that he's ... too distinctly English, if that makes sense. As is Hollander, for that matter.) He's spent half his career [->tremendous exaggeration] playing either Fat Uncles or Aging Perverts or an amalgamation of the two, but he isn't entirely without scope and depth. (Not that it were by definition impossible to be deep as a fat avuncular pervert.)
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Date: 2009-06-19 10:36 pm (UTC)The truth is that I haven't seen him on the Tudors... perhaps it would change my way to see him! I think I have seen Meyers only on two or three films, so don't take my opinion about his acting seriously!
I like him for his looks, that's true, in that way I can see him as a very idealized Saint-Just, but you're provably right and he's not the best one to make a good historical portrait from our Antoine.
Anyways, I can't think right now about someone more who could be a right Saint-Just, do you have some suggestions? :D
(And I repeat, don't worry, I realized it was not meant to be offensive ;) )
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Date: 2009-06-20 01:07 am (UTC)I'm so lazy..blah
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Date: 2009-06-20 02:35 am (UTC)This is the best picture I could find, alas, but his face is relatively similiar - just long enough, but with a bit of roundness to make him look younger, aquiline nose...add a bit of make-up, long dark hair, etc. and he'd be excellent both acting-wise and in terms of look.
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Date: 2009-06-20 03:33 am (UTC)Alas, apart from ranting, I don't have much to contribute, as often... I can't think of "actors" to "play" them or "picture" them. I just can't. Esp. when it concerns Anglo-American actors. I just can't see them. Most actor faces would seem too "fake" when applied to them, and even more when applied to Saint-Just. There's not a single one who portrayed him already with whom I'm satisfied. I have my picture of him, and in it he has an aura. Something. It's not any day you'd find that on an actor, along with real talent and an average ressemblance. >.>;
I can think of a few things, but it rarely goes beyond the physical traits, which I can find here and there in various individuals...
Hm. I probably shouldn't add my lack of opinion to this. >.>
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Date: 2009-06-20 03:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-20 03:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-20 04:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-20 09:39 am (UTC)Yeah, that's true u_u
Although I find him attractive to be a modern Saint-Just, I'm not sure that Meyers could make Antoine the complex character he was... And that's the most important about him! :)
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Date: 2009-06-20 10:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-20 10:55 am (UTC)http://static1.purepeople.com/articles/3/31/10/3/@/212697-yann-barthes-637x0-2.jpg
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Date: 2009-06-20 12:59 pm (UTC)JRM has the appropriate intensity, but his "intensity" translates as a barely contained motion and visible instability - which Saint-Just was most pointedly not. The thing that's emphasized about Saint-Just is his lack of emotions (or at least showing them) and statuesque like stillness - that's what's delightfully intimidating about him! ^^ - whereas JRM always displays emotions and moves, even when he's trying to be stoic. His lip wobbles. ^^ He does crazy, not fanatically devoted.
But yes, I suppose it is down to taste, not to mention personal views of a character. ^^ Do you mean visually...? Because he was so delightfully awesome in Gormenghast. (speaking of which, I love your username!)
Those pesky Thermidorians
Date: 2009-06-20 01:27 pm (UTC)Also, I find that some of his writings, esp. letters and private notes, show a certain inability to contain or deal with a surplus of emotion - there are moments when something seems to snap and he gets very intensely emotional. But that's just my opinion. : )
But yes, in the end, I think you are right that JRM is far too fidgety for a Saint-Just. I think one parallel between his role as Steerpike and a fictional Saint-Just, as he might appear in a movie, is that they are both extremely driven and ambitious - again, not something I view as a negative characteristic. There is a need to succeed there, and as quickly as possible. Steerpike's methods and deeper motivations do in this sense of course not compare to Saint-Justs' - only a pesky Thermidorian would put forward such a thing.
I think that visually, however, JRM would work for me as a Saint-Just, yes. But I am not sure why exactly. LOL.
And thank you!
Re: Those pesky Thermidorians
Date: 2009-06-20 01:45 pm (UTC)JRM has intensity and driving ambition (which, as you say, are part of Saint-Just's character), but he wouldn't be able to - in my opinion of course - play someone who wants to be stoic. It's so antithetical to JRM's nature. JRM's intense moments of emotion would work excellently for a few moments of SJ, but overall I just can't see him being forceful in a cold way. JRM (and Steerpike) run towards hot, not cold, even when he's trying to be (particularly in Steerpike), and while SJ does do that sometimes, he's trying to suppress it. With JRM, I would be afraid that trying to suppress the emotion and twitchy would be suppressing the intensity, because that's how he displays intensity.
Who knows? ^^; Everyone has different mental images! ^_^
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Date: 2009-06-21 05:47 am (UTC)