Mer rougie par des torrents de sang

[sibylla-oo.livejournal.com]

"Le vaisseau de la Révolution ne peut arriver à bon port que sur un mer rougie par des torrents de sang" 

Does anyone know if this quote is
1) historical of fictional (Büchner's) . If real when it was pronounced?
2) If it's real, is it Saint-Just's or Barère's?

"Une nation ne se regénère que sur des monceaux de cadavre."
And what about his one? Is its only source a Thermidorian satirical play, again? The one in which it's attributed, as maelicia has found out, to a mysterious friend of Saint-Just?

Because it is often attributed to Saint-Just, too. It's astonishing; as if Saint-Just hadn't left to posterity enough gory quotes, the anti-revolutionary propagandists must invent new ones :D

Well, that's not serious historiography at all. According to George Henry Lewes, Vilate contributes the first quote to Barère and the second one to Saint-Just and they are supposed to have said it at a private dinner during Marie-Antoinette's process. Has anyone read Vilate? So, did Barère say his bloody quote in the Convention or at a dinner with his CPS buddies? Did he say it at all? Oh dear.



Thanks for help!

Comments

[sibylla-oo.livejournal.com]

Wajda's Danton does not offer solutions, in a certain way it's like Forman's Goya's Ghosts: deeply reactionnary. A conservative position of a passive observer and detached critic, smirking while observing ridiculousness of people's higher aspirations, comes out as the only reasonable choice. Don't make revolutions, 'cause you'll end up like a criminal. Don't get engagé, because you can realize you've been mistaken and you can be laughed at. Now, that's brave, isn't it? If everyone was like that, we'd still be living in caves.
It's true that there is a certain inner paradox in Wajda. On one hand, the message "revolution-bad" is clear. However, Danton does come out as the man of "la rue" and a positive connotation is attributed to this, as you mention. He remains a hero, in spite of his corruption. Wajda's Danton seem to be the one who knows the people and is able to speak for them; and the people, it means 1) total lack of idealism and 2)following the basic instincts. Because "people are like that". But that does not depress him, rather he watches it with a deeply catholic benevolence. Don't try to be perfect (it'd be pride, it could be evil, you could be like Lucifer), we are all sinners, so let's tolerate our petty crimes and corruptions...and be willing to pardon the others for them, too. I am not quite sure what implications in relation to political power it actually has, besides being profoundly corrupting on the human level. Does it mean that "Danton's revolution" means cleaning the way for hedonist consumerism, or am I misinterpreting him? Does giving the people the "permission" to be imperfect and corrupt make it easier to control them through guilt-inducement and through offering ways of penitence?