[identity profile] hoald.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] revolution_fr

The members of the National Convention
Places of Abode
“Commissaires aux archives”
Links : book

Maximilien Robespierre’s address was “rue des Cordeliers , passage du Commerce ” .

Augustin Robespierre’s address was “rue Saint-Honoré, No. 366 ” .

Maybe, These things found in the rue Saint-Honoré were not Maximilien’s ?
Maybe, Maximilien Robespierre was not familiar with the Duplays? Augustin was familiar with the Duplays?

Date: 2011-05-02 03:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] francoisejeanne.livejournal.com
That's a mistake. Rue des Cordeliers was Danton's address. Robespierre's address was most certainly Rue Saint-Honoré.

Date: 2011-05-02 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nirejseki.livejournal.com
I believe Augustin and Maximilien both lived in the Rue Saint-Honoré..? I must admit that I don't keep track of where Bonbon was most of the time. However: History books get things wrong, you know; as do historical documents, which is why historical research involves a lot of comparing and contrasting and double-checking because otherwise you'll get caught in in a foolish story and be made to look like an idiot; it's happened many times (some of the stories regarding the British spy are a typical example that greatly embarrassed many historians later when evidence of many inaccuracies and some stuff that was clearly made up so that the person could continue to get paid - a standard reason to distrust historical documents)

In short: If every source indicates that Maximilien was living at the Rue Saint-Honoré, if even people scarcely related to the events in question refer to Maximilien's dwelling with the Duplays, if the fact that the Convention was not so incompetent as to not know where to go to confiscate the belongings of one of its members was not so thoroughly confirmed, and if every historian more or less since the Revolution has concluded after years of research that Maximilien Robespierre lived with the Duplays on the Rue Saint-Honoré, then I'm afraid you are going to have to do a lot better than a link to a google book snipped and a bald assertion of fact without substantial factual basis to convince me otherwise.

If you have facts - actual facts that run up against almost every piece of primary evidence documentation stating otherwise - I'd be happy to discuss the issue as a real historical question. If not, however, I intend to dismiss it entirely out of hand as a conspiracy with about as much substance as "Elvis is still alive".

On the other hand, I'd be happy to discuss this as a potentially interesting beginning to an Alternative Universe storyline, though; that sounds intriguing!

Date: 2011-05-03 05:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hanriotfran.livejournal.com
Hoal, I guess that Augustin "Bonbon" Robespierre lived at Rue Saint-Florentin, but I'm not 100% sure of it. I must go check to my books about if it is true.

As for Maximilien he INDEED lived in Rue Saint-Honoré. At least, after 17 July 1791. Before that, he had lived at Rue Saintonge.

If you don't believe those verifiable data, Hoal, just go to Paris and see where the marble slab that show this record...There are even pics in the net to show this. I don't know what link did you find asserting this.

Sincerily, I can't understand what point are you trying to make, Hoal...


Date: 2011-05-03 05:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nirejseki.livejournal.com
*sigh* Okay. 5 points.

1: if the thermidorians were so coordinated, so disciplined, so efficient as to be able to control what all of them put in their private memoirs (both then and decades later), what they put into the decentralized press, what non-Thermidorian commentators said, what third parties (including enemy and Austrian/British parties, not to mention "wow I was just passing by on holiday!" parties) ALL SAID...then I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have mostly been killed or kicked out and then helped create the Directory of all things. I mean, seriously. The Directory.

2. Yes, because they knocked at the door and politey asked the person at the door where the tyrant was so that she could assassinate him. The correct response to that is "slam door, call for help". I suspect that that was, in fact, the response. The response is NOT "ask Maxime to come downstairs so the assassins can see him before we slam the door, call for help, get them arrested, and try and execute them for attempted murder".

3. Given that his brother was often out of town or even without that fact, that would be a creepy amount of visiting if everyone thinks you live there.

4. You're really taking a lot from one document, aren't you?

5. TROOOOOOOOLL! TROOOOLL IN THE DUNGEONS! (but at least you're amusing!)

Date: 2011-05-03 06:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwynplainee.livejournal.com
Just, ask yourself these questions:

1º Did the Termidorians confiscated the rue des Cordeliers?
I haven't seen any document about that.

2º Charlotte was complaining of the Duplays because they "stole" (in her point of view) her Maximilien, or her Augustin?
Reread her memories. Charlotte was complaining of the Duplays because they stole her Maximilien, and of madame Ricord because she stole her Augustin.

3º The trope of historians who interviewed Élisabeth Le Bas after the Revolution said that Robespierre lived in the rue des Cordeliers?
Lamartine says Maximilien lived in the rue Saint-Honoré. Esquiros says Maximilien lived in the rue Saint-Honoré. Hamel says Maximilien lived in the rue Saint-Honoré. Nobody says Maximilien lived in the rue des Cordeliers.

4º And Élisabeth, why she talks about Maximilien and not Augustin?
Reread her memories. Here, she talks about the disposition of the rooms of her house in the Rue Saint-Honoré:
A droite de la salle à manger, un salon éclairé par une croisée donnant sur le petit jardin ; à gauche du salon, un cabinet d’étude, avec un jour de souffrance donnant sur la cabane du jardinier du couvent de la Conception. Dans la salle à manger, un petit escalier en bois par où l’on montait dans les appartements ; à droite était la chambre à coucher de ma mère, éclairée par deux croisées ; à droite de la chambre, et y attenant, un petit cabinet de toilette, qu’on traversait pour entrer dans la modeste chambre de MAXIMILIEN.
Elle n’avait qu’une croisée, une cheminée ; son mobilier était le plus simple du monde : un lit de noyer ; les rideaux du lit en damas bleu à fleurs blanches, garniture provenant d’une robe de ma mère ; un très modeste bureau ; quelques chaises de paille ; il y avait aussi un casier servant de bibliothèque. Cette chambre était éclairée par une fenêtre donnant sur les hangars, en sorte que Robespierre entendait sans cesse le bruit du travail, mais sans en être troublé.

I agree with [livejournal.com profile] nirejseki. You should check others sources. Remember that the person who wrote that document was an human like you and me and can be mistaken.
Edited Date: 2011-05-03 11:16 pm (UTC)

Date: 2011-05-05 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hanriotfran.livejournal.com
Robespierre was absolutely familiar to the Duplays. To many documents saying that, Hoald. I'm sorry...All sources quoted by Gwynplainee are true, and we can add others:Jean Jaurès, Mignet, Michelet, Lamartine, Dauban, Taine, Thiers, Soboul, Vovelle, Mazauric...all of them mentioned Maximilien living rue Saint-Honoré. And of course, Charlotte, Maxime's sister.

Charlotte wrote, as yu already knws, her memories, in which she tld with many details, how bad she felt about Maximilien living at the Duplays. She was furious to see how those wmen "manipulated" his brother. She fighted too much to demonstrate that Eléonore was not Maximilien's girlfriend, and she also speaks about Elisabteh being the only one who was god among the Duplays. When she LIVED with them, it was her who always took Charlotte's side when Mme. Duplay "attacked" her, and she even would comb Charlotte's hair.

As for Augustin,he lived at Rue Saint-Florentin, I think, along with Charlotte. Please, read Charlotte's memories. She had no reason to make up all these petty details.


Date: 2011-05-05 05:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hanriotfran.livejournal.com
I meant "good", not "god". Sorry.

Date: 2011-05-06 07:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwynplainee.livejournal.com
Is possible (not probable) that Charlotte's Memoirs are written by Laponneraye. But that doesn't mean that they aren't accurate. Laponneraye was Charlotte's friend. She had a lithographed portrait of him, as we can see in the notes and justificatory documents no. 8, of the aforementioned memories.

Date: 2011-05-05 10:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwynplainee.livejournal.com
If Maximilien was not familiar with they, why Élisabeth Le Bas talks so kind about a man that, according to you, she was not familiar?
Éléonore didn't say nothing, that is true. But will you reject Élisabeth's memories just for that? And will you reject all the documents because you can't accept that the one you're quoting is a mistaken one?
Edited Date: 2011-05-06 12:06 am (UTC)

Date: 2011-05-06 05:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hanriotfran.livejournal.com
Well, then. Maybe no document we have is true. What could have been the causes by which ALLL histporians wanted to make up all this story about Maximilien and the Duplays? Nonsense! If it was an important thing, I could said, "it could be...", but no historian will loss his/her time to make up a minor detail in the life of a public man.

I know people like you from other forums. They are always saying that all proofs are made up, fake, not true, etc, etc, etc...

I think I shall no loss my time discussing facts -already proven facts - with you, since you'll always answer that none of these could be proved as true. I have no communication with God, I just have some little acces to books and some documents, no more, nor less.

Only a little more data for you: Lamartine spoke with Elisabeth Duplay when she was an elderly lady, and she told him about "bon ami" Maxime. And be sure that ALL PARIS knew where Maximilien lived in. Go to Paris ARchives to search documents about l'affaire Cécile Renault, the girl who wanted to kill Robespierre.Well, she went right to Duplay's house to kill him. It is all registered in Tribunal Révolutionnaire 's archives...Go there and see.


Date: 2011-05-06 07:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwynplainee.livejournal.com
If you don't believe in the documents, then find a "Ouija" to contact the spirit of Élisabeth Duplay to ask her if Robespierre was familiar with her.
I don't have to spend my time with a troll.
Edited Date: 2011-05-06 07:37 pm (UTC)

Date: 2011-05-07 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hanriotfran.livejournal.com
I understand more than ever, why did you choose this avatar, Gwynplainee...I feel like doing the same that the little girl is doing in it...banging my head over a table in dispair.

What proof this Hoald needs to convince himself/herself that Robespierre INDEED lived in Rue Saint-Honoré? If I write that Mlle. Rebault saw Robespierre in Duplay's house, this person would answer that he was there visiting and not living with this family...Ohhhhhh myyyyyyy!!!!! Heeeeeellllppppp!!!



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