[identity profile] fromrequired.livejournal.com
 I don't have much knowledge about the French Revolution (as you can tell by looking at my userpic, I'm more of a WWII fangirl) but I'm greatly interested in it. 

So in my AP Euro History class, we had to watch this documentary about the French Revolution. I'll post a part of it below:Read more )
[identity profile] lacommunarde.livejournal.com
As "on June 18, 1948, the United Nations Commission on Human Rights adopted its International Declaration of Human Rights," I figured today would be a good day to ask this. I hope it isn't too off topic...

Which Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen - the one from '89 or the one from '93 - has more similarities with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948?

I personally think that the one from '93 does, but I'm curious to know what other people think.
[identity profile] maelicia.livejournal.com
Random fashion question today to solve a not-so-grand mystery of representations.

What's up with the all-too-dandy canes in Wajda's Danton and in the BBC docudrama? Isn't British!not!Carnot soooo proud in the back? Even... a little too much? While Emo BritishCockney!not!Collot is Emo. Wait, "emo"... I thought that was supposed to be the job of British!Orlando Bloom Billie Joe Armstrong Adam Lambert!not!Saint-Just. Sorry, I got confused.

Were they really a key fashion accessory then? Louis-Sébastien Mercier seems to more or less confirm it in the Tableau de Paris, apparently:

« Elle a remplacé l’épée qu’on ne porte plus habituellement, dit-il. On court le matin une badine à la main ; la marche en est plus leste et l’on ne connaît plus ces disputes et ces querelles si familières il y a soixante ans, et qui faisaient couler le sang pour de simples inattentions… On n’aurait réussi qu’avec peine à interdire le port des armes : le Parisien s’est désarmé de lui-même pour sa commodité et par raison… Les femmes ont repris la canne qu’elles portaient dans le XIe siècle. Elles sortent et vont seules dans les rues et sur les boulevards, la canne à la main. Ce n’est pas pour elles un vain ornement ; elles en ont besoin plus que les hommes, vu la bizarrerie de leurs hauts talons qui ne les exhaussent que pour leur ôter la faculté de marcher. La canne à bec de corbin disparaît peu à peu et ne se verra bientôt plus que dans la main du contrôleur ou directeur des finances qui seul est dans l’usage d’entrer ainsi chez le roi. »

Lazy translator here is lazy.

If Louis-Sébastien Mercier says it in the Tableau de Paris...!

But why is it only The Worst Portrayals Evar (from my POV they are, sorry) who give them this top fashion and admittedly cool accessory? And why not in La Révolution française while we're speaking of Worst Portrayals (lol)? It would have been practical to beat the crap out of Desmoulins in this ~famous scene~? (I'm being facetious, okay.) Are there other representations I missed that show them with canes too? Discuss.
[identity profile] missweirdness.livejournal.com
Anyhow i was watching Iron Chef of America and one of the dishes was Lobster Thermidor..and that raised some eyebrows with me..

That is so weird why they would name a plate after that..and has anyone ever tried it?

I'm just curious xD I just sometimes stumble onto weird stuff, it scares me sometimes xP And they made the Lobster with chili and chocolate inside..which sounds altogether yummy...though i don't like sea food as much..
[identity profile] celine-carol.livejournal.com
Hola, long time lurker, first time posting...

I've recently been pretty obsessed with the French Revolution (particularly Robespierre), and I've been reading quite a bit on him and his contemporaries, and I've noticed that a lot of people have jumped to diagnose several other revolutionaries and analyze every possible psychological inclination they may have had.  (I've read a lot of theories on what made Marat blister up, and there seems to be something of a consensus that Mirabeau probably had every venereal disease known to mankind, and sexual preferences that would have been considered rather deviant at the time have been attributed to Camille...)

But I've searched the internet rather thoroughly, and I have yet to find any explanation for Robespierre's behavior that really amounts to anything other than "He was a jerk" or "He was weird" or "He was just fanatical".
But a lot of his traits:  Jerky walk, fist clinching, facial twitching/grimacing, head/shoulder rocking, light filtering problems, issues with voice modulation, nervous breakdowns, gastrointestinal issues, social awkwardness, trembling hands, issues with unexpected social calls, not liking to be touched, absentmindedness, odd food preferences, not liking to look people in the face, refusal to change clothing/habits, and his tendency toward obsession ---
Seem to point toward something that could be diagnosed.

I was just curious if anyone else thought that his behavior could have been symptomatic of a disorder (or syndrome)?
[identity profile] missweirdness.livejournal.com
I know that the festival of the supreme being hastened Maxime's fall but certaintly he must of known this, right? Why didn't anyone stop him? I mean why did the CPS and convention or any of his allies ever stopped him? And how in the hell, did they let him stage IT?!! Did they not have any sense either? I'm seriously wondering that xD I mean..that's bugged me when i read all sorts of things on it but they never explained why. Unless..everyone was on crack..then i can totally understand.


>.> and expect some fanart from me in a few days time. Hahah, i have some other twisting ideas that should be fun to draw xD *cracks up*

and on a total unrelated note: The CPS's table. Their table. I swear to the supreme being that i keep thinking it's circle or oval rather than a rectangle or SQUARE; =/ (which still pisses me off that we were lied that a square and rectangle were DIFFERENT shapes, not a special type of rectangle or special type of square. whatever =/ IGNORE ME xD Ranting a lot xD)
[identity profile] en-franglais.livejournal.com
Bonsoir/matin--

If you've ever been to Paris, you're inevitably walked by those used ("rare") bookstands that line the streets, proffering all kinds of literature from histories to popular magazines. Ok, they seem to be mainly for tourists, but I think it's fun to browse a little! Anyway, the last time I  was in Paris (this past fall, it feels too long already), I was just walking along the Seine--shivering, poorly dressed for the weather--when I passed one of these bookstands and happened to cast an eye over its wares. I was immediately struck, not by a title, but rather by a front cover design--I saw an image very familiar and dear to me, the David painting of Camille, Lucile, and Horace! Of course, I slowed for closer inspection. "L'enfant et la vie familiale sous l'Ancien Régime" par Philippe Ariès. I grabbed the book immediately and shelled out the 4 euro it cost--much to the amusement of the Frenchwoman who was overseeing the stand (I think she asked me twice if it was "Ce livre?" I wanted, which must have been due either to my obvious Americanness or the silly smile on my face). 


But anyway--does anyone else find it sad how the Desmoulins family ended up on the cover of a book about family when their own experience as a family was so short-lived and tragic? Not to mention the fact that they're technically not an Old Regime family? I suppose the publisher, or at least the cover design people, must have been so charmed by the painting that they chose to overlook its famous Revolutionary subjects and their story? I can only guess it was an artistic decision, not a historical one. Hmm. In any case, there they are. I haven't examined it too closely--it's more of a shameless souvenir--but I'm pretty sure the Desmoulins aren't in the actual text (correct me if I'm wrong).

[identity profile] missweirdness.livejournal.com
OH NO! She's gonna talk about it..Yes..that horrible black day Thermidor..I'm a bit confused on it. Even in books..I'm like WTF?
 okay, here's what i do know.

Maxime and Co get arrested and sent to different prisons. They get released and all sort of beautiful things..xD So at the end, they're at City Hall at night..and..

that's where i get stumped.

I know Maxime attempted suicide and the others tried the same..well it seems like they were xD  I know Hanriot was outside with his soldiers, but they got lazy and tired, and went home. So again. I know Maxime was like hesisting to do anything..I know the robespierrist Mayor Les or whatever his name (too lazy to look it up -_-) And it may or may not rained.

Was Maxime alone with his associates? Was he with the commune? I'm so confused. I know the mess after. But why did he attempt to kill himself? That puzzled me. and why didn't they take any definitive action for their lives? (i'd do anything to save my life..clawing at people xD) Was it a lost cause?

Why didn't he try harder to save himself?

I'm prolly dumb xD and special..but i've always wondered it.  And i guess..since they lost the Commune.(as it gave up on them..) they were sitting ducks weren't they?

Anything helps xD Any corrections.xD  Any explantations for this?
 
[identity profile] wolfshadow713.livejournal.com
I realize that this is an ironic post to make right after a post about the release of the film "Danton," but nonetheless...

But anyway, I was skimming Saint-Just's indictment of the Dantonists last night and, not for the first time, I noticed his repeated use of the word "immoler." I just find it interesting because immoler can have rather religious connotations when taken to mean a sacrifice, so I'm if I should take this as indicative of rather religious (maybe not the best word, but it's been a long day...) undertones Saint-Just's revolutionary philosophy? Or was it already generally in the lexicon? I haven't read enough primary source documents to really judge...It's not terribly important, but I guess the repetition of that particular word rather than the substitution of synonyms in a speech that is pretty heavy on the allusions and imagery and otherwise rather varied in diction stuck out to me. Or this obsession is just the result of sleep deprivation...
[identity profile] livviebway.livejournal.com
One of bizarre stories I've heard floating around about the French Revolution is that Marie Antoinette's last letter to Mme Elisabeth was found under Robespierre's bed after his execution. Funny how no biography I've read of his has ever mentioned this, you'd think it would be important. Anyway, does anyone know where this story came from?
[identity profile] pevampire.livejournal.com
I want to know what historians generally think of Robespierre but i'm having sort of hard time
researching ;_; Just quotes about him would be okay (if i can understand it) but what do
historians say about him? Do they really say horrible things? It would be nice if you could give me some quotes about Maxime. ^_^
[identity profile] misatheredpanda.livejournal.com
Hello. Some little things - which I suppose are easier to take for granted...

First: I somehow feel guilty asking this, since it's not very useful either way (yes, let me deprecate myself a moment more) - else I might have brought it up earlier as it's been bothering me vaguely for years - but since I'd like to finally strike it off my 'wtf' list, I'm just going to put it out there: I recall reading on this site (incidentally, is it gone?) that Desmoulins was a "rumored" bisexual. Since then I have found this addressed in all of one place: Mantel's novel. Somehow, a work of fiction and the internet just don't do it for me, so I was wondering if anyone here knows of any reference to Camille's sexuality coming from a legit source? Or anything that isn't fictional outright, at least? Or is it just something the author of that site might have absorbed from fiction? Or both?!

Second: Okay, maybe this is just silly. But can anyone tell me more about the lock of Robespierre's hair at the Musée Carnavalet? ...and why it's white?

By the way, I'd like to suggest that since this community has separate tags under "desmoulins" and "camille desmoulins" that they be merged together. (Of course I am stupid about such things.)
[identity profile] victoriavandal.livejournal.com
I don't think any of the history books I've read have ever really gone into this, but - presumably, as originally intended, the Thermidor plot was to have Robespierre and co. arrested, imprisoned, and then, presumably, put on trial before the Tribunal. Could they have seriously been confident in a conviction? Some accounts of the day suggest that the Robespierristes were reluctant to be 'freed' because it appears they reckoned a trial was a better option for them, Marat style. It would also have given Robespierre's supporters more time to organise. So, what were the plotters thinking? Just 'it's now or never and we'll work the next bit out when we come to it'? Any thoughts on this?

Another bit of unpleasantness on the same subject - I recently came across an account that suggests there wasn't any lead in the wound in Robespierre's jaw, i.e., that it was a shot from a pistol charged with gunpowder but no lead bullet: that would still cause a fair bit of damage, specially if fired into your mouth, which is the suicide method, but wouldn't smash your skull...sorry, I've had toothache all week so that's the sort of thing I've been wondering about!
[identity profile] take-a-sadsong.livejournal.com

Hi there! I'm a homeschooled geeky highschooler, and I've always been interested in the French Revolution since I was much younger. I've read only a couple of children's books about the time, but those two have been some of my favorites (I'm re-reading one of them right now), and the whole culture just seems to fascinate me. However, I have absolutely no idea why there was a Revolution other than the commoners were angry with the royals and all that bit. All my textbooks seem to sort of skim the F. Rev., and focus in much more on The American one instead (which sort of makes sense, since I use American texts. :P).

Basically, I'm a newbie who wants to really get into the whole era, but I have no idea where to start. I know there's probably been a million posts on here of the sort (I apoligize, I couldn't find one!), but I really need book recommendations. :) What is a good starting book(s) for the overall Revolution and the Reign of Terror, that isn't too textbooky and boring? Don't get me wrong, I love dates of events and stuff, but sometimes it gets mind-numbing when the emotion of the times gets cut. If there's a huge book list somewhere for the Revolution, that'd be awesome too. The more the merrier. :)

Also, I have to ask: Was Robbespierre as bad as they all say he was? ;)

thanks so much! :D

[identity profile] citoyenneclark.livejournal.com

I'm writing a paper on the Revolution in pop. culture and various Schools of Thought about the Rev. So breaking it down, I've come across these. I know I'm missing a bunch, but what do they stand for?

Taine: Uber Dantonist
Revisionist: Schama, Furet, tends to be very royalist
Brits (caryle, Thompson and Hampson): Caryle, very anti-rev. Thompson, anit-danton, Hampson anit-Saint-Just
American (Palmer, Curtis): Pro rev

I figure that the latest Marie Antoinette movie counts as revisionist. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks
-MCW

[identity profile] toi-marguerite.livejournal.com
 Sorry to spam up the community, citizens, but I'm taking a course called "Reenacting the Past: History as Hypothesis", which means that, basically, I am LARPing as Robespierre for college credit. It's a fascinating course and it raises a host of issues that I thought would be interesting to see discussed in the community.

For one thing, there's trying to solidify the goals and the agenda of the left. I find it really fascinating, particularly since we've been given very few guidelines. So far, all we know is that we must:
a. represent the general will
b. gain control of the Assembly, and 
c. limit the power of the king.

We get to make the rest up, so I'm hitting the history books. Out of curiousity, what do you guys think of the Jacobin agenda? Or rather, what do you think it was, if there was one, what parts of Jacobin ideology absolutely must be represented and which bits are negligable?
[identity profile] pedrolino.livejournal.com
I first got really into the French Revolution after watching the documentary the History Channel made in 2004 or 2005. I rewatched it recently, and while I was somewhat dismayed that they managed to get through the entire thing without mentioning anybody but Robespierre and Danton more than once, I think it's a pretty good, understandable introduction to the period. Has anyone else seen it? What are your views?
[identity profile] bettylabamba.livejournal.com
Ok. So I went to see that Marie Antoinette movie. On the one hand I liked it because of the awesome costuming [hot guys in wigs & capri pants!], but on the other hand it blew. The movie had a lot of pointless scenes and progressed in an almost painfully slow manner, which is a total shame since Mizz Sophia "I'mNotAsGoodAsMyDaddyButOMG!MarcJacobsIsAmazing" Coppola had unprecendented access to Versailles. I still have every intention of buying this crap on DVD, but the whole movie came across as an overbudget overglorified senior year student film with subliminal "Come Visit France! Strap on Your Pannier & Tour Versailles!" messages.

I'm not going to even get started on how the Revolution was completely glossed over. I don't remember if Necker was even portrayed in it.

What's everyone else's opinions/rants?
[identity profile] trf-chan.livejournal.com
(In Spanish, Un Lugar de la Seguridad Grande - I have no idea why that amuses me, but somehow it does)

Well, I've finally gotten around to finishing Hilary Mantel's A Place of Greater Safety this weekend. Overall, I thought it was quite wonderful, especially compared what is usually offered up in the catagory of French Revolution books - fiction and nonfiction. At least Mantel doesn't think Robespierre was green. ;)

The only thing that irked me was her unecessarily harsh (IMO) treatment of the Duplay family and Philippe Lebas. The whole Babette thing was just completely...O.o;. Saint-Just wasn't too nicely handled either, but that at least had a more understandable basis than with the poor Duplays and Lebas.

That's what irks me about what is written on the FR, honestly. No author seems content to evaluate all personages involved honestly - someone's always got to be The Source of All Evil or That Idiot Who Got in the Way of Everything.

Other than that, though, I thought it was an excellent book. Mantel has stated that she came into it loving Camille and came out of it loving Maxime. I had almost the opposite experience, oddly enough. XD; I still love Maxime, of course, but I'm definitely more interested in Camille now than I was before.

What are everyone else's opinions on the book?

P.S. - For my Speech class (not the team - I decided against doing that the moment I stepped foot in the class), we have to write a speech describing a certain setting. I've decided on revolutionary Paris. We need to hit up at least ten locations. I've already got The Jacobins, the National Convention, Place de la Revolution, Palais Royal, Tuileries, and the Bastille. Does anyone have any other suggestions of places that I should use? Please note that I'd like places that you can find pictures of as they looked at the time (or a description) or that have remained mostly unchanged. Thanks. :)
[identity profile] tearosefury.livejournal.com
In a convo with a friend of mine on AIM last night, after being asked if the film Danton was ambiguous in not clearly taking sides, I said this:

EccentricBeauty9: Well, it's about the Terror

EccentricBeauty9: So, *lol* by consequence yes, to a certain degree

EccentricBeauty9: Danton is lionized to a certain extent

EccentricBeauty9: But Robespierre is also treated more sympathically than you could, theoretically, treat him

EccentricBeauty9: But everyone has a soft spot for Robespierre (by everyone I mean, those who study the Revolution; most of us at least) so, that makes sense

 Would you agree that this is for the most part true, that most of us to some degree are a bit of a sucker for Robespierre? Or are there some hard core anti-Robespierrists out there?

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