Monthly Discussion Point: Maximilien Robespierre

[trf-chan.livejournal.com]

This month's discussion point is Maximilien Robespierre.

Because it's his birthday in a few days. Discuss any and all aspects of his life, his work, his views, his reputation, and anything else you think of!

Comments

[maelipstick.livejournal.com]

Just out of interest, how reliable is Proyart as a source for Robespierre's childhood/ schooldays? It seems to get quoted a lot, although possibly because nothing else is available, but it's very obviously wildly inaccurate about his adult life?

Also where is that portrait of mini-Robespierre from?

Sorry to ask you more questions at such a busy time for you.

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

The reason we use Proyart is that, apart from official records and Charlotte's memoirs, it's the only real source we have. And Proyart is more accurate than Charlotte, generally, because he was actually there and Charlotte wasn't. (For example, Charlotte translates "Maximilien was good in school" into "he almost always won first prize," which, as we can see from the official records, is just not true.) Still, it's best when we can corroborate what Proyart says. (We can't, I don't think, for the incident where he reads the address to the king, but most historians think it's accurate because being chosen to do that reflects rather well on Robespierre and Proyart probably wouldn't have made it up for that reason. In any case, I could be wrong that it's not corroborated elsewhere...)

I'm actually not sure where the original of the portrait of Robespierre as a child is from. I've seen it in books and around the internet, but I don't recall seeing a source. Which is frustrating, but what can you do?

Don't worry about the questions; I just finished my last exam and once I'm done revising my paper tomorrow, I'll be done for the year.

[maelipstick.livejournal.com]

I'm actually not sure where the original of the portrait of Robespierre as a child is from. I've seen it in books and around the internet, but I don't recall seeing a source.

The only attribution I've seen was in a dodgy 19th Century googlebook which says "from a portrait by Boze" which seems wrong for various reasons - I wondered if was an attempt by someone to imagine a young Robespierre from the Boze painting.

This book also states that Robespierre did not live at LLG while taking his degree, but got a evening job doing legal copyist work, which paid for digs and nice hair, giving Hamel as a source. I have to admit, I'm rather fond of Robespierre working through college, but I've never seen it mentioned anywhere else, so I assume it is bunk. Any idea if there's any truth in ramen noodle Robespierre?

most historians think it's accurate because being chosen to do that reflects rather well on Robespierre and Proyart probably wouldn't have made it up for that reason.

And it would have been a fairly audacious thing to make up, I suppose. There'd have been plenty of other people around who would remember that particular event.

I just finished my last exam and once I'm done revising my paper tomorrow, I'll be done for the year.

Congratulations!

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

That seems unlikely to me; Boze did paint an early portrait of Robespierre before his official training began, but Robespierre was already in his twenties when he posed for it, and it's much less skillfully execuated than the child Robespierre portrait.

Robespierre was definitely living at Louis-le-Grand while he studied law. It was stipulated in his scholarship. However, it's entirely likely that he apprenticed - for lack of a better word - with a practicing lawyer, as this was permitted and even encouraged for law students. Hamel is actually not a bad source, since he often quotes from primary sources that one would otherwise have to dig through an archive to find.

I agree, there were still plenty of people living who could have invalidated Proyart's statement if it were false. On the other hand, though, some pretty audacious lying about facts that people were around to remember was going on c. 1795. (Still, I don't think Proyart's lying here. It just wouldn't make any sense.)

Congratulations!
Thanks! :D

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

Edit: Ughhh. When you said "portrait", I thought you all meant the descriptive portrait, not the painting. Sorry. Got confused since you were talking of Proyart. :/

I'm actually not sure where the original of the portrait of Robespierre as a child is from. I've seen it in books and around the internet, but I don't recall seeing a source. Which is frustrating, but what can you do?

I might be ready to make an answer on this, but it's basic -- because obviously I haven't yet read so many freaking sources of 400 pages and what more!!1! /insanity.

As I see it from my corpus (which is quite too spread), the childhood part stems from the "biographical/historical genre", which during the Thermidorian Reaction is mainly Montjoie and Proyart. This genre seems to have evolved from the portraits: L. Duperron begins with a few very simple phrases on Robespierre's youth, but not any more, and it's basic.

It seems a lot more came later in the late 1820s -- yes, from Charlotte, but also from Charles Reybaud and Laignelot (who was close to Robespierre) who participated in writing the Mémoires authentiques de Robespierre (which are obviously not). There's only two volumes of those, and they're mostly on Robespierre's childhood and youth. I think it builds up to the États Généraux and that's all. Sergio Luzzatto (author of Mémoire de la Terreur) explains that Charlotte, even if she denied her participation to it, must have had given some details, because those present in the Mémoires authentiques weren't known yet (and I assume show up in Charlotte's own memoirs).

Apart from this, a lot seems to be copy/pasted from narratives around the "poor, envious and frustrated child grows into rebellious leader/assassin" trope. Now, that genre is rather vast.

I wonder if you could find the same sort of stuff written on Cromwell...