Characterization help?

[toi-marguerite.livejournal.com]

Hey all!

I'm writing a NaNoWriMo novel that takes place from approximately 1788- 1799 and being the crazed fangirl that I am, I'm including as many Jacobins as I can get away with. I think I've got a good handle on Robespierre, since he's the main object of my obsession, but I do confess that I have nooooooooo idea at all how to characterize Saint- Just and Desmoulins. Aside from physical descriptions, I'm not quite sure what to do personality- wise to keep them as close to life as possible.

I would look at other historical fiction books as a guide, but then we get blood-thirsty-psycopathic-murderer!Saint- Just and dumb-as-a-rock!Desmoulins and I would rather avoid those since I've figured out that they're pretty much complete fabrications.

Thank you so much to anyone who can shed some light on the subject!

Comments

[jesta-ariadne.livejournal.com]

Quotes and letters and stuff? I mean, it might more give you ideas for interesting directions to take rather than giving you a wonderfully clear picture of actual personality... but... still! It's some more information. And fun.

I can't help you much on Saint-Just but I, um, seem to remember typing up a bunch of Camille Desmoulins ones..... A BIG bunch. (http://jesta-ariadne.livejournal.com/134242.html)
(...Please excuse/ignore all the spazzy fangirlish narration interspersed XDD I was trying to explain to people who didn't know much about it.... plus, I am a spazzy fangirl.)

Go you with NaNoWriMo!!

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

I can help you for Saint-Just (which, at the same time, disqualifies me for helping you for Desmoulins -- since I know pratically nothing on him and am biased): I wrote a 12-page dissertation on Saint-Just last year for my university course on the French Revolution -- the only problem is that it's in French. -_-; I was planning to translate it and post it somewhere, but I didn't have time yet.... I could write for you a little summary to describe, but that would need to get down my list of "All The Things I Have To Do For University And Am Already Lacking Time For". >_____>

The first problem with Saint-Just is that, for people who are used to "simple" personalities, he seems "complex" but since I'm complex myself, I don't find him too complex. The best sources to understand him are, for his youth, his literary texts (and by this, I mean, reading Organt in a critical way, not in a hysterical, victorian-like OMG!NUN!RAPE!DONKEY!SEX!SO!AWFUL!AND!DEBAUCHED -- in all, Organt tells you about young!Saint-Just's cynicism (as in Ancient-inspired Diogenes cynicism)), for his early years into the Revolution, when he was too young to be elected, there are his many letters, which reflect how impatient to take action he is, for his Convention years, there are a few passages from his speeches and from the Institutions républicaines which give clues on his personality.

The things to be avoided are:

1) To think he was constantly extremist and "madder than Robespierre" -- the thing is that it's possible to interpret is personality as a lot more pragmatic, rational and calm than Robespierre, who was anxious bordering on nevrotic (and for reason's sake: it's not dramatic to be slightly nevrotic, as many historians since to believe it is -- come on, now, how many human beings are? and they are not living in the same circumstances at all!);

2) To think he was like the Ebil Eve who gave Maximilien!Adam the Ebil Apple of the Revolution and turned him into an Ebil man -- no, but you laugh here, but more than a half of the characterisations (especially the dantoniste ones) of Saint-Just present him as the one who's responsible for everything, and that if he hadn't been there, Robespierre wouldn't have gotten so "bad" (ex. the film La Révolution française: les années terribles -- for plain!evil!Lucifer-like!Saint-Just, there's A Place of Greater Safety, but you must know about this already).

3) The feminisation -- this is bloody getting on my nerves. "He was pretty like a girl." "He looked like a girl." "He was so pretty omg." Etc. Someday, I'll write an article about this. And will probably include it in my master degree. This is just far too irritating. And, on top of it, this constant feminisation of Saint-Just, following the classical reference to his "lyrical" and "admiring" letter to Robespierre just shows the latent homophoby of plenty of historians -- whether they are homosexuals or not is not the issue here, the problem is that historians pretend it (but never honestly write it) and use this to bash them, because they are OBVIOUSLY "abnormal" which explains why their socio-political ideas are also "abnormal".

Hm, yeah, so that's all I can think of for now.


P.S. What's a "NaNoWriMo" novel?

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

I wish I could really help, but my area of expertise also happens to be Robespierre--though I would advise you to take care where he's concerned, since (fantastically untrue, Thermidorian-esque characterizations aside) the difference between a good and bad characterization of Robespierre is more subtle than at first apparent. I don't mean to imply necessarily that you don't, as you say, have "a good handle" on him, just that it's always good to examine one's assumptions, even when one has gotten past the point of indifferently accepting propaganda.

As for Saint-Just, I'll second maelicia's suggestions, and add that it's gotten to be something of a cliché even in the best of novels to refer to Saint-Just as "icy" or some variant thereof. It's best to avoid any descriptors that make Saint-Just sound like the human-ice-cube-machine.

As far as Desmoulins goes, don't make him some sort of Glorious Martyr to Free Speech, because he wasn't that. Nor would I recommend making him incredibly innocent or unbelievably debauched. Don't try combining the two extremes either, because that never works. The best advice I can give where he's concerned is: forget, though it may be difficult, everything you've ever read about him coming from any fictional source. Also, avoid the cliché of making him Robespierre's Best Friend. There isn't really any evidence for that in the historical record, and it's far too overdone in fiction. (But then, I suppose this goes with my previous point.)

...Wow, it seems I had more to say on the subject than I thought. I hope it's helpful.

[emma1794.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately I don't have as much knowledge of saint-just and camille as I would like; all my time has been taken up with Robespierre, just cos, obviously XDD

But have a flick through/read some of the chapters of Hilary mantel's A place of greater safety (it's a fantastically written book although I know maelicia doesn't approve XDD - I haven't yet got to any saint-just bits, so I don't know how incorrect her interpretation of him will be). It's great for characterisation of camille. Have fun, good luck. :P

[kurotoshi.livejournal.com]

If you include Marat/and/or Simonne in the story PLEASE contact me for information regarding him, PLEASE, too many people, INCLUDING experts, have no clue whatsoever of his personality while I more or less concentrated on that aspect for 3 years, :C So PLEASE, I'll easily approachable!