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Hello. Some little things - which I suppose are easier to take for granted...

First: I somehow feel guilty asking this, since it's not very useful either way (yes, let me deprecate myself a moment more) - else I might have brought it up earlier as it's been bothering me vaguely for years - but since I'd like to finally strike it off my 'wtf' list, I'm just going to put it out there: I recall reading on this site (incidentally, is it gone?) that Desmoulins was a "rumored" bisexual. Since then I have found this addressed in all of one place: Mantel's novel. Somehow, a work of fiction and the internet just don't do it for me, so I was wondering if anyone here knows of any reference to Camille's sexuality coming from a legit source? Or anything that isn't fictional outright, at least? Or is it just something the author of that site might have absorbed from fiction? Or both?!

Second: Okay, maybe this is just silly. But can anyone tell me more about the lock of Robespierre's hair at the Musée Carnavalet? ...and why it's white?

By the way, I'd like to suggest that since this community has separate tags under "desmoulins" and "camille desmoulins" that they be merged together. (Of course I am stupid about such things.)

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I don't know if there would be a historical anecdote about Robespierre's hair--seeing as he always had it powdered, any color change would probably go unnoticed. Out of curiosity, do we know at what point in his life the lock is supposedly from?

(Note: The hair going naturally white may just be a slight fixation of mine after finding this summer among my dark hair a strand of white that appeared to corespond in legnth to the ammount of time I'd been in college so far...)

I don't think it could go entirely unnoticed if it had - even if he was incredibly diligent about powdering his hair, I assume it would have been visible, if only, say, at his execution. I don't know anything about the lock - but I've just found this (http://books.google.com/books?id=jeAmWNkmpHUC&printsec=frontcover) (pg 78) on google books:

A lock of Robespierre's hair has just come into the hands of the keepers of the Musée Carnavalet in Paris, and will in future be exhibited in that place by the side of the portrait of the Terrorist painted in 1783 by Boilly. Robespierre in that picture . . . is represented as a young man with finely-chiselled features, blue eyes, carnation lips, and light chestnut hair . . . The lock of hair is of the same colour as that in Boilly's picture. It was enclosed in a locket or medallion, on which were engraved the word " égalité," the date of the "9th Thermidor," and the martyr's palms. The souvenir belonged to Robespierre's sister Charlotte, who, on the death of the Terrorist, was sheltered by one of his adherents, the Citizen Mathon. Charlotte Robespierre, in May, 1834, died in a garret in the Rue de la Fontaine, and left the relic to Mathon's daughter, from whom it passed into the possession of a '48 man named Gabiot, whose son has handed it over to the Carnavalet M.

So! That gives us a bit more information. Er - I'm not sure about the 'light chestnut hair' in the portrait (if it's the one that comes up when I search - incidentally, there is no portrait of Robespierre by Boilly in my big fat catalogue of the Musée Carnavalet, but I have a feeling I'm being way too dorky and should get back to the point), but either way, if in the 19th century the hair was supposedly that colour too, perhaps it supports the idea that it lost its colour over time? Also - I don't know if the "9th Thermidor" is there because the hair was clipped at the time of the execution, or just because it went with the theme of martyrdom, but perhaps it helps.

I don't think I've ever come across a comment about his hair at execution, but that's not really the sort of thing anyone would comment on. Btw there's a reference in a review of an exhibition in New York 1989 of a sketch of him on the way to execuion - has anyone ever seen this, or know who it's by or if it's genuine?

I think in the circumstances Charlotte would have got his hair in his lifetime as a keepsake: peope wore hair in lockets, rings, bracelets etc. "Mourning jewellery' is made of hair from the corpse, but it doesn't seem likely that she'd have got it after death, unless there was a sympathiser involved in the disposal of the bodies (that brings you back to the death mask/life mask conundrum I was discussing earlier in the week!), though Napoleon's hair was kept after his head was shaved for his death mask - in more formal circumstances, though! The date may be a riposte to the fashion for gloating Thermidor medals - mourning the day he and the hope for a Jacobin republic fell, otherwise I'd have thought it would be dated the 10th if it was taken from his corpse?

Perhaps the Boilly portrait is now not believed to be of Robespierre (given the date)? I presume they acquired the more famous stripey portrait at a later date so that is now 'the' portrait. And it sounds like the hair has faded over time from being on display: a lot of museums now keep cabinets covered with pieces of felt you have to lift and press a timer switch for a lightbulb for items like clothing and paper. That reminds me - is the famous bloodstained call to arms, with the unfinished signature, still on display? I presume they still have it, but I'd have thought that would be light-sensitive, too! (though I'm not sure about the truth of the story that surrounds it, or why it's dated the 9th not the 10th!)

A P.S. on the Napoleon's hair thing - there are several locks of his hair surviving from various stages of his life - these were tested because of the arsenic poisoning theory - arsenic had been found when testing the hair taken after death, but it was also found on the earlier locks, so it's presumed his regular hair pomade had arsenic in it (nice!).

Interesting!

...oh, but I'm going to be circular now that you've brought up Napoleon's hair: I've seen two or three locks of it in different places (which rather seems unnecessary, but there you go) and they all seemed to be the right colour - I mean how they would have been on his head. They wouldn't really be that much older than Robespierre's. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they were just better taken care of?

I have yet to see Napoleon's hair! There's an empty case in a fab museum in LOndon (name suddenly escapes me) with an empty case of Napoleon's gun or sword, stolen 1920....I suppose thick dark Italiany hair may weather differently to Robespierre's, if it was browny/red-ish: red's the pigment that really seems to go totally - I've got some 1860's stuffed kittens and they've gone white!

Hm - I saw some in Montréal, and some in a travelling exhibition that came to Boston - I can't remember if I've seen it elsewhere - but actually (I was surprised), it was a sort of blondish colour (pretty, I have to say), like in his earlier portraits. Which I wouldn't think would act so differently from Robespierre's...?

Travelling hair exhibition! I suppose 19thc museum displays never considered light damage would be an issue, but if Napoleon's was kept in a locket it would keep its colour (thinks - so the later black was dye?! Maybe that's the arsenic source! I like the long whitish hair in one of the earlier portraits - very romantic poet! - though I had just assumed it was a loose wig, because it looks so different to the dark 'brutus' cut he has later)

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misatheredpanda.livejournal.com - 2008-09-18 17:45 (UTC) - Expand

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victoriavandal.livejournal.com - 2008-09-18 20:47 (UTC) - Expand

The London museum with the stolen gun was the Sir John Soane - it's in Holborn, not far from the British Museum, and still has its original 18th/19thc display layout, so it's basically a museum of a museum, the private house of a mad collector, with every bit of wallspace in a tall 18thc house covered! Really worth seeing if you're in London - and the Pitt Rivers in Oxford is stunning, too- it's inside the Oxford Natural History Museum, and features in Philip Pullman's books. They had to repatriate the aborigine penis and the mummified tatooed maori heads, though! And up the road is the Ashmolean, where Marat allegedly nicked some items!

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misatheredpanda.livejournal.com - 2008-09-18 17:48 (UTC) - Expand

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victoriavandal.livejournal.com - 2008-09-18 20:54 (UTC) - Expand

I think that makes sense - I'm sure as his sister it wouldn't have been too difficult to obtain, anyway. I suppose we don't know when it was put into that case, either - it seems awfully impersonal for a family keepsake, so maybe that was added after the lock fell into someone else's hands.

I expect any number of things could have happened with the portrait in the past century or so, so I won't worry about it - I only got a bit confused because I don't recall ever seeing a portrait of Robespierre with any discernible hair colour ~~unless one counts Madame Tussaud's~~ (not that I'm so on top of these things). But I can tell you that they acquired the 'stripey' portrait in 1883 ~~okay, I'll stop cuddling the catalogue now. But after lugging it across the pond I must get some use out of it.~~

I didn't see the bloodstained call to arms, which rather distressed me. I don't think I would have just missed it, but I've no idea what might have happened to it.

Re - the call to arms. It's so famous, I'm surprised if it isn't on display, but I did read a comment from someone who visited a couple of years ago saying it used to be on display but wasn't there last time they went. I hope it hasn't been stolen, because I've always wanted to see it! (is it in the catalogue? If not, it may be kept in their archives as some ink reacts with paper and actually can eat through it!)

My favourite thing in the London science museum - John Dee's 'scrying glass' (he was an Elizabethan necromancer and model for Prospero) - was stolen recently. I think I'm probably the only person who cared!

Funny you mention this! It WAS there several years ago when I first came to Paris and when I went to the Carnavalet a few days ago I looked for it and it was gone. They've replaced it with that painting of Thermidor. I asked the guard if he knew what had happened to the letter and he said, "They removed it." That's all. I stupidly forgot to ask if it was a permanent switch or what, but seeing as how it's been gone for several years...

So I wasn't imagining things! And I would so like to see it. Then again, I was probably at romantic swooning point as it was, so maybe it's just as well.

It's still mentioned in the online tourist guides (as of 2007) as one of their most famous items, so it seems mad not to display it, unless they've moved it somewhere darker to preserve it better! Huet says it was in a cabinet in the 80's, but then they had a refit and put it on a wall or something - is that where you saw it?

It was on the wall when I saw it. I'm going to try to get an internship at the Carnavalet if at all possible, in which case I might be able to tell you more. If not, I will definitely be back there and on a hunt to find out what has happened to it.

That would be a fab place to work! They've had their backstage archives on TV here a couple of times recently, with their photography collection - I imagine only a fraction of what they have in there gets displayed.

I don't recall ever seeing a portrait of Robespierre with any discernible hair colour
There are several though, including the famous anonymous one in the Carnavalet, if you look closely enough. (You can see it's reddish-brown just in front of his ear.)

I do believe it! I just personally can't recall any (and I have not scrutinised that one so closely). But then, I am not a great expert on said Robespierre anyway. :/

I don't mean to imply that you don't; I merely wanted to note, since you seemed unaware of the fact, that there are several portraits out there that do show the color of his hair.

Btw there's a reference in a review of an exhibition in New York 1989 of a sketch of him on the way to execuion - has anyone ever seen this, or know who it's by or if it's genuine?
I have a copy of the book they made from that exhibition, which has that sketch, among others. I have no reason to suspect it's not genuine, thought they attribute it to David, which I doubt somewhat, given that he was in hiding at the time. Anyway, I think the only reason they make that attribution is that they assume anyone else would have made a grosteque caricature by that point, and that's not really the case with the drawing. I can post it, if you like, as soon as I get my scanner up and running.

Yes, that would be great! (if that's the appropriate word for such an unhappy subject!). Yes, I doubt David would have the time or the inclination at that point!

I'll have to do that then, along with the other sketches--there are a few of Couthon as well.

Yay! There's not much on Couthon around - amazingly, even my so-called socialist/Trot/what-you-will friends in official disability rights groups hadn't heard of him, or assumed he was a figment of Wajda's imagination!

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estellacat.livejournal.com - 2008-09-19 21:13 (UTC) - Expand

It can happen! My cousin's been ill for several months and her hair has suddenly turned grey at the roots (she's 38).

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