(no subject)

[misatheredpanda.livejournal.com]

Hello. Some little things - which I suppose are easier to take for granted...

First: I somehow feel guilty asking this, since it's not very useful either way (yes, let me deprecate myself a moment more) - else I might have brought it up earlier as it's been bothering me vaguely for years - but since I'd like to finally strike it off my 'wtf' list, I'm just going to put it out there: I recall reading on this site (incidentally, is it gone?) that Desmoulins was a "rumored" bisexual. Since then I have found this addressed in all of one place: Mantel's novel. Somehow, a work of fiction and the internet just don't do it for me, so I was wondering if anyone here knows of any reference to Camille's sexuality coming from a legit source? Or anything that isn't fictional outright, at least? Or is it just something the author of that site might have absorbed from fiction? Or both?!

Second: Okay, maybe this is just silly. But can anyone tell me more about the lock of Robespierre's hair at the Musée Carnavalet? ...and why it's white?

By the way, I'd like to suggest that since this community has separate tags under "desmoulins" and "camille desmoulins" that they be merged together. (Of course I am stupid about such things.)

Comments

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

I still haven't been to the Musee Carnavalet (and it was on TV for a couple of minutes tonight, just to remind me!) so I haven't seen the relic in question, but some colours are fugitive - the red in Victorian taxidermy squirrels and foxes and - er - kittens - goes white with exposure to light. I don't have any antique brown or reddish hair, but it may do the same! Other than that - powder? Wig?

I don't have the reference to hand, but I think it comes from a remark made by Danton, recorded by Robespierre and given to Saint-Just for his accusation: it's something like 'Danton's a false friend and accused him of a private and shameful vice' (but that could be any number of things!). My Desmoulins book is Claretie, and he's very prim (1870's), so there's nothing on the source for the shagging Lucile's mother story, or any mention of bisexuality, or if such rumours floated around in scandal sheets of the time - hopefully someone else with a more up-to-date biog can enlighten on that!

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

P.S. it may just be the way my mind works, or the way it's translated, but the opening line of this letter doesn't half sound suggestive! http://chnm.gmu.edu/revolution/d/397/

[misatheredpanda.livejournal.com]

It really does. No, I don't think that would be the first thing I'd think of to write there, it had to be aiming at something...

[wolfshadow713.livejournal.com]

It is worth noting that, at various points in history, prases that would seem extremely intement or suggestive now were not seen as such then.

[misatheredpanda.livejournal.com]

I do realise that. Aha, when I said "aiming at something" I didn't necessarily mean something 'suggestive', just that with an opening phrase like that, it had to have been meant to evoke a particular reaction. (That is, even back then Camille was seen as an excellent dramatic device!)

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

It makes me think of the end of "Gladiator'!

[misatheredpanda.livejournal.com]

(This will sound even sillier, but where do we know Robespierre's natural hair colour from, anyway? - I think I've just absorbed it such that I've lost track.) I was wondering that - I have no idea how it works in hair. And of course the wig thing came up too, but it just seems silly that someone would take a clipping from his wig and call it a lock of his hair. However inseparable they apparently were. And it doesn't look like powder...
...bleach?

That was all I could think of, too - but it seems very vague! As you've said, that could mean anything. Not to mention the way it's relayed - "he said that he said that he said..."; well, you know, maybe Danton didn't say that, or maybe he did but he was making crap up. Alas.
I've just bought Gérard Bonn's biography, which was published only last year. I can't go back and check at the moment because it's already packed up (I made a brief effort to find it, decided it wasn't worth it, sorry), but I have to admit, I checked the index when I got it (okay, this point has been privately gnawing at me) and saw nothing of the sort - I don't know though if he says anything about this vice of Camille's. But anyway, I'm not sure how to take the book, since upon skimming the author comes across as a bit of a squealing fanboy (I read an entire! paragraph! where every! sentence! was punctuated with an exclamation point!) - well, he does say in the preface that he's not a writer or a historian.
I have yet to lay hands on a copy of Claretie's biography. :/ Prim or not, I'd love to see it eventually.

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

I've got an 80's book but it's second-hand and stinks of tobacco smoke so I'm waiting a bit before I limp through it with my crap French (what's french for 'bisexual'?). There's a comment on Amazon that Claretie had Lucile's socks...(fanboy!) and is very - 'oh, camille, how could you write this violent stuff ?-oh, i can hardly bear it - but i must record it' - which I actually really like!

I'm surprised Ruth Scurr didn't even touch on issues of sexuality in her recent book (she took the idea that Robespierre had a mistress and ran with that, even though she herself said the source was dodgy!)

[misatheredpanda.livejournal.com]

Dude, I am so jealous about those socks. I'm not even going to try to hide it. (I wonder where they ended up, anyway? Or how he got ahold of them?)
Haha, that sounds fantastic, honestly. Sometimes the writers themselves are as fun as the history! (Hence my love for Carlyle, which I'm still not sure whether I should be ashamed of or not.)

I haven't read Ruth Scurr - I keep feeling like I should, if only because it's recent, but then everything I've heard about it has so turned me off! Maybe some day, if I have the opportunity not to pay for it.

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

I don't think Scurr has come up with anything new, so it's probably not worth it unless you find it cheap!
The only thing I know about the socks is from whoever wrote the Amazon 'Desmoulins' page...he doesn't say in his book, by the way, I have her socks...I sleep with them on...or anything like that! Maybe they're languishing in a museum archive somewhere...

[livviebway.livejournal.com]

I think he got them from one of Horace's kids. He had some other things too, like Camille's snuff box and his cockade and tricolor scarf. No idea where they are now!

[misatheredpanda.livejournal.com]

Horace had children?? (This is another obsessive point where I keep getting stuck, alas. Everything I know about his life comes from the French wikipedia entry which is no longer there!)

SNUFF IS A VICE, CAMILLE. D:<

[livviebway.livejournal.com]

He married Zoé Villefranche and had 4 children, Adolphe, Camilia (who married a Monsieur Boom), Lucile (who married a Monsieur Garraud), and Horace Camille. The daughters had children, but the sons didn't, so while Camille and Lucile do having living descendants today, the name died out.

[misatheredpanda.livejournal.com]

I have a picture of the socks somewhere on my hard drive, although I can't remember where it came from. I should look for it. They seem cozy.

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

Googling for something else, I just found this: sock! http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://home.nordnet.fr/blatouche/tabatiere.jpg&imgrefurl=http://home.nordnet.fr/blatouche/JH4.html&start=99&h=155&w=200&sz=12&tbnid=3gclbZaoFjR69M:&tbnh=81&tbnw=104&hl=en&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcamille%2Bdesmoulins%2Brevolutions%2Bde%2Bfrance%26start%3D80%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den-us%26sa%3DN&um=1&usg=__flyhQfhcTp2H-apY53hMkOxgHtw=

[misatheredpanda.livejournal.com]

And it has the snuff box, too! (Ugly little thing.) Thank you for giving me to squeal pointlessly over today. XD

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

I had a friend at university who used to take snuff (you can still buy it!) - it wasn't very sexy to watch...

[misatheredpanda.livejournal.com]

I imagine it isn't. Perhaps that's why I never associated it with Camille. Although this is of keen interest to me, as I am an ardent enthusiast of Camille's enormous pink nose.