Characterization help?

[toi-marguerite.livejournal.com]

Hey all!

I'm writing a NaNoWriMo novel that takes place from approximately 1788- 1799 and being the crazed fangirl that I am, I'm including as many Jacobins as I can get away with. I think I've got a good handle on Robespierre, since he's the main object of my obsession, but I do confess that I have nooooooooo idea at all how to characterize Saint- Just and Desmoulins. Aside from physical descriptions, I'm not quite sure what to do personality- wise to keep them as close to life as possible.

I would look at other historical fiction books as a guide, but then we get blood-thirsty-psycopathic-murderer!Saint- Just and dumb-as-a-rock!Desmoulins and I would rather avoid those since I've figured out that they're pretty much complete fabrications.

Thank you so much to anyone who can shed some light on the subject!

Comments

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

I can help you for Saint-Just (which, at the same time, disqualifies me for helping you for Desmoulins -- since I know pratically nothing on him and am biased): I wrote a 12-page dissertation on Saint-Just last year for my university course on the French Revolution -- the only problem is that it's in French. -_-; I was planning to translate it and post it somewhere, but I didn't have time yet.... I could write for you a little summary to describe, but that would need to get down my list of "All The Things I Have To Do For University And Am Already Lacking Time For". >_____>

The first problem with Saint-Just is that, for people who are used to "simple" personalities, he seems "complex" but since I'm complex myself, I don't find him too complex. The best sources to understand him are, for his youth, his literary texts (and by this, I mean, reading Organt in a critical way, not in a hysterical, victorian-like OMG!NUN!RAPE!DONKEY!SEX!SO!AWFUL!AND!DEBAUCHED -- in all, Organt tells you about young!Saint-Just's cynicism (as in Ancient-inspired Diogenes cynicism)), for his early years into the Revolution, when he was too young to be elected, there are his many letters, which reflect how impatient to take action he is, for his Convention years, there are a few passages from his speeches and from the Institutions républicaines which give clues on his personality.

The things to be avoided are:

1) To think he was constantly extremist and "madder than Robespierre" -- the thing is that it's possible to interpret is personality as a lot more pragmatic, rational and calm than Robespierre, who was anxious bordering on nevrotic (and for reason's sake: it's not dramatic to be slightly nevrotic, as many historians since to believe it is -- come on, now, how many human beings are? and they are not living in the same circumstances at all!);

2) To think he was like the Ebil Eve who gave Maximilien!Adam the Ebil Apple of the Revolution and turned him into an Ebil man -- no, but you laugh here, but more than a half of the characterisations (especially the dantoniste ones) of Saint-Just present him as the one who's responsible for everything, and that if he hadn't been there, Robespierre wouldn't have gotten so "bad" (ex. the film La Révolution française: les années terribles -- for plain!evil!Lucifer-like!Saint-Just, there's A Place of Greater Safety, but you must know about this already).

3) The feminisation -- this is bloody getting on my nerves. "He was pretty like a girl." "He looked like a girl." "He was so pretty omg." Etc. Someday, I'll write an article about this. And will probably include it in my master degree. This is just far too irritating. And, on top of it, this constant feminisation of Saint-Just, following the classical reference to his "lyrical" and "admiring" letter to Robespierre just shows the latent homophoby of plenty of historians -- whether they are homosexuals or not is not the issue here, the problem is that historians pretend it (but never honestly write it) and use this to bash them, because they are OBVIOUSLY "abnormal" which explains why their socio-political ideas are also "abnormal".

Hm, yeah, so that's all I can think of for now.


P.S. What's a "NaNoWriMo" novel?

[vulpea-rea.livejournal.com]

one month: November.

you writing a novel: 50,000 words or more.

GO. i did it last year but i'm way too busy to do it this year, though it was a whole lot of fun and mad writing. seeing the crack of dawn and such.

[toi-marguerite.livejournal.com]

You try to write a 50,000 word novel in month. Mine's going to be terrible becaue I realized that I haven't done nearly as much research as I need to. 0.o

Thanks very much! I shall have to set aside a weekend for research now. ^^

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

Does that mean you're supposed to be done in two weeks? O.o;

[toi-marguerite.livejournal.com]

.. yeah. Which is why mine, alas, will not be finished. Or, if it is, it will be terrible and in substantial need of editing.

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

Eeep. And I thought I was giving myself crazy objectives. XD; I'd help you faster, but, unfortunately, november is my big month of university evaluations -- and on top of this, a conference I have to prepare for next week, as I just discovered a few hours ago that I wasn't done translating it in French (I have to do it in English and French, already wrote it in English so it's then easier to translate in my mother tongue). I hope what I wrote above is a good introduction thought. XD; I could check in my livejournal if there's anything, but most of the stuff I post is in French...

[toi-marguerite.livejournal.com]

Don't worry about it! ^^ Get your university stuff done; that's much more important.

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

Yes. ^^

I have posted this a few months ago thought: my (bad) translation of Saint-Just's early short text "La Raison à la morne". (http://community.livejournal.com/revolution_fr/21912.html) I like it a lot, mostly because the social critique is still actual -- you'd just have to change a few references and it's still the same. -_-; /socio-political editorial.

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

I concede that Saint-Just is pretty, but I've yet to figure out how that makes him look like a girl. He may be pretty, but it's in no way a feminine sort of pretty. And even if it were, I fail to see how that would make him automatically evil. It seems to me that in addition to the homophobia, there must be some misogyny going on here too, since it's not the fact that he's pretty that they seem threatened by, but the fact that they perceive him as a girl... and this makes him evil (somehow). And they accuse the Revolutionaries of demonizing femininity! It's absolutely ridiculous. They can't have it both ways. /rant

[bettylabamba.livejournal.com]

I concede that Saint-Just is pretty, but I've yet to figure out how that makes him look like a girl. He may be pretty, but it's in no way a feminine sort of pretty. And even if it were, I fail to see how that would make him automatically evil.

He is gorgeous, but I don't get how that makes him "look like a girl" either. Maybe because he's not cowboy-rugged-marlboro man type handsome? So that makes him feminine? Or maybe it's just a case of convenient stereotyping--why think when you can regurgitate?

I've always thought of S-J as very masculine--not meathead masculine, but more like that thin but sinewy type.

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

I think you're right on both counts, but the lack of cowboyishness is probably the reason that American (and those who have bought into American stereotypes on the matter) historians especially see him as feminine.

But I know exactly what you mean. Saint-Just strikes me as one of the least feminine men of the 18th century. (Considering what the popular styles and mannerisms of the era, that's not saying much, but I think you get my point.)

[eleonored.livejournal.com]

off top...
I never seen a colored photo of the Greuze's portrait on your userpic! Couldn't I ask you, where did you find it?

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

I wish I could say I had found a colored version of that portrait, but actually, I colored it myself... so it's natural state, as far as I've ever seen it, is also black and white.

[eleonored.livejournal.com]

Ah! C'est dommage!... And I had hope...

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

Sorry about that. >__>