[identity profile] victoriavandal.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] revolution_fr
Are there any not-insane books, chapters etc (I've seen vague references to articles in 'Annales Historiques de la Revolution Francaise') on the role of Freemasonry / Illuminism in the Revolution? (Ken Campbell, theatre performer and benignly nutty theorist, died yesterday and it reminded me...I saw him do a performance in a masonic lodge in Edinburgh - it was being used as a temporary venue - and the iconography carved into the walls etc. was very similar that of the revolution's visual motifs). It seems to be either completely ignored in the 'regular' history books, other than occasional references - Claretie had some item of Desmoulins' masonic regalia, I think - or prompt lunatic frothing rantings in right-wing conspiracy theory books from Thermidor onwards. I presume regular historians don't want to go there because of the nebulousness or the weirdness it generally prompts, but if you're going to discuss Rousseau and co and their influence, it seems ridiculous to then ignore what is also so clearly a factor in the lives of the various players : it would make sense if the Breton deputies were freemasons, for example, but all discussion in books then either vanishes or becomes wild...(and very funny).

Date: 2008-09-05 01:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chip-squidley.livejournal.com
I completely agree with you regarding the different strands of Masonry. P2 was probably atypical even in all that diversity. The reason I brought it up as an example is because it seemed to really be involved in conspiracy and secret plotting...and it has been exposed to at least some serious analysis.

Regarding Revolutionary times...perhaps the lack of discussion is due to a lack of documentation? If there were no official records kept of meetings and if no participant kept a private record that we know of...then that leaves us very little to talk about. And if Masonic Lodges played a role in the genesis of revolution perhaps the clubs took over that role once the members could meet and debate more publicly.

Date: 2008-09-08 02:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chip-squidley.livejournal.com
Would they have needed a lot of funding back then? No budget for television was required! Although it might be fun to think what kind of campaign advertisements some of these guys would have created if they did have television :)

Date: 2008-09-10 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fatimahcrossin.livejournal.com
P2, oh Goddess... there are thousands of accounts in Italian but most of them are quite (and often monsterously) biased. You know, many people envolved with it are still alive and even at their places !


Btw. one of the best known masons around end of XVIIIth century was W. A. Mozart. His best-known opera "Die Zauberfloete" is completely based on masonic exoteric symbolisms...

Date: 2008-09-12 12:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chip-squidley.livejournal.com
I'm starting to feel like taking a look at it all again since it's not fresh in my mind. But it was definitely far from virtuous, I agree! It probably wasn't even Masonic...but more an attempt on the part of the extreme right, conservative elements in the Catholic church, and probably organized crime to manufacture a conspiracy based on the Masonic mythos. "Lets make our own Illluminati with a regressive spin!"

Date: 2008-09-17 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fatimahcrossin.livejournal.com
It was just an "Illuminati for money", yes ! Berlusconi has still a lot to thank it because of his surprisingly quick career !

Date: 2008-09-17 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fatimahcrossin.livejournal.com
Yes, right ! But most things about it still remain obscure...

Hehe, I believe the Freemasonry began to change (badly) in the XIXth century when the Industrial revolution began to spread on a large scale requiring capital, capital, capital... the conquest of Sicily due to the reign of Piemonte which led to the actual Italian nation was all a dirty work of the international masonry, and it had nothing to deal with virtue !

Date: 2008-09-12 12:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chip-squidley.livejournal.com
If I remember correctly it was well documented that Berlusconi was a member.

Date: 2008-09-17 06:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fatimahcrossin.livejournal.com
Yes, he was... once I also remembered the number of his pass !

Date: 2008-09-18 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chip-squidley.livejournal.com
He's probably still using it!

Date: 2008-09-27 06:06 pm (UTC)

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