That Robespierre TV prog, and some radio...

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

The 90 minute programme 'Terror! Robespierre and the French Revolution' is scheduled for broadcast on BBC2 on Saturday 11 July at 9pm - if there's anyone reading this in Britain who has the ability to record it and put it on youtube, please do - my computer is sadly too crap to handle that sort of thing. From the schedule date, I think the Supersizers Eat the French Revolution Saturday repeat will also be the same evening - so a bit of a theme there, then. In addition, there was a short discussion - that frankly didn't get anywhere - on Robespierre and Danton on BBC Radio 3's Night Waves review programme. Apparently, there's a book on Danton coming out, and the male historian was on discussing it with Ruth Scurr. She comes across as politely dismissive of the male Danton historian's assertions that Danton was 'every bit a male - Robespierre was far from that' (I think the male historian was about to say 'effeminate', then realised using 'feminine' in a pejorative way wasn't a good idea on a prog with a female presnter and a female historian!). The discussion is about 26 minutes into the programme, which is on 'listen again', and lasts 10 mins (if you can get it where you are) on this link http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00ldsvm/Night_Waves_Danton_Peter_RandallPage_Michael_Goldfarb/

Comments

Incredible affirmations that seem to become common places

[(Anonymous)]

Well, the English pronounciation of the French names is hilarious - "Roubspeeyehr"! Anyway: the invention of thought-crime, the first time when humanity was put before the individual? WTF??????????????? Humanity, or even non-human entities were almost always put before individual - Let's speak about the WWI, a marvellous imperialist war where 40.000 people died each day in mud of Somme...And the times before the FR: religious wars, the Inquisition, all the witch trials...But no, the FR guilty of gulag again. WTF????????????? And you are so right about the übermensch fascination :-)

Re: Incredible affirmations that seem to become common places

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

The pronunciation point's an interesting one: Robespierre is the most familiar French Revolutionary name outside France - and that seems to have been the case in his lifetime, too - but in 20thc films, etc that most people are used to, his name's been pronounced to rhyme with robe as in bathrobe. I pronounce it in the French 20thc manner (as far as my scouse accent allows me), and people think I'm either being pretentious/snobby or don't immediately know who I'm talking about...I suppose you could see it as a positive sign of international celebrity: so famous that your name has a set (albeit wrong) pronunciation abroad, like 'Paris'(with an 'is') 'Vienna', 'Sao Paulo' or 'Spain'!

Re: Incredible affirmations that seem to become common places

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

Robespierre (in the English pronunciation)also seems to be a popular name for cats! Of course, cats are considered 'feminine', so it's back to the old macho Danton thing again. Ruth Scurr did at least raise the point that a lot of this was due to 19thc dramatists/novelists, but unfortunately she didn't elaborate, which is a shame, in that had she mentioned Danton's Death/Danton's Tod, and its influence, I think a lot of the Radio 3 audience would know the reference and get her point.

Re: Incredible affirmations that seem to become common places

[(Anonymous)]

That's interesting! You don't call your pet Hitler or Stalin, do you? If "Robespierre" is a common name for cats in the UK, it must be that there's a certain ambiguity in the image of Carlyle's infamous SeaGreen. How would you explain it? Though, now when I am thinking about it it can be all about the fact that FR is considered a "far past": certainly there can be cats called Caligula, Tiberius or Torquemada and the neighbours won't be shocked either.

Re: Incredible affirmations that seem to become common places

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

I think, to a lot of people in Britain, Robespierre's name doesn't mean much more to them than the pantomime villain in Scarlet Pimpernel films: I don't think he's regarded as up there (or should it be 'down there'?) with Stalin or Hitler, though historical distance could have a lot to do with that, too. If you are on the Left or better-educated, you probably view him more like Trotsky: for example, the review in the Guardian newspaper (generally read by middle-class, university educated, liberal/left)of the most recent Scarlet Pimpernel series said 'shame the wrong side always wins'. I was really surprised by Simon Schama's book (and the Horrible Histories revolutions book) because I thought British historians had long since moved away from the 'Thermidorian' view into something more considered and well-balanced: Thompson and Hampson were the books in school libraries when I was a kid. Schama is a massive step backwards, pastiche-Carlyle, though maybe his success shows that the mainstream (i.e. non-academic) public don't want balance, they just want blood curdling tales to read on holiday.

There's a cute kitten called Robespierre in a 60's American cartoon film called 'Gay Pur-ee'(which isn't very well known), and I've come across a kids' book where the child is called Robespierre - I've also heard it used as an American boy's name (!) in a 1950's Warner Bros or Hannah Barbera cartoon. I think it's just regarded as a pretty name, like Perrier or Chantilly! Then again, I once had a cat called Plantagenet, after my favourite allegedly-child-murdering hunchback king (a schoolfriend was in the Richard III society, dedicated to proving he was the victim of a posthumous Tudor Thermidor-style smear campaign - which he undoubtedly was: however, I prefer the murderous scheming black-clad hunchback of fiction: he's much more fun!

Re: Incredible affirmations that seem to become common places

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, the villains are SO much more fun :-) As for what you say about the more balanced view of the FR - that's why has been so surprising for me that an apparently intelligent BBC journalist repeats such nonsense on Fr.Rev. not as a disputed theory, but as a commonplace.

Re: Incredible affirmations that seem to become common places

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

The Guardian newspaper's political editor once commented that Hilary Mantel's 'A Place of Greater Safety' was 'so good, she must have read Simon Schama'!! That's from a left-wing journalist specialising in politics! The Radio 3 prog presenter is presumably an English graduate, not a historian, as it's an art/theatre/classical music programme, though rather disturbingly the controller of BBC2 IS a history graduate, and one who says "Simon Schama's 'Citizens' changed my life": she's the one who commissioned this upcoming programme...(though, interestingly, the fact that she regarded Schama and revisionism as a sort of 'antidote' to the prevailing history faculty academic view implies the prevailing view in the UK academic field is centre/left wing, and she's right wing - but sadly, she's the one who gave up history, went into TV, and is now in charge of our TV screens!)

Re: Incredible affirmations that seem to become common places

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

By the way, BBC staff sometimes follow links made from their pages to check up on public opinion - BBC person, if you're reading this, stop paying Simon Schama so much of our fucking money! He's crap! Tristram Hunt and Dan Snow aren't very good either - just well-connected.

Re: Incredible affirmations that seem to become common places

[(Anonymous)]

Unfortunately, it seems to me that it is part of the general weakening of the discourse of the Left. Even in France where the nationalism made admiration for the Fr.Revolution something which united the right and the left, nowadays the right is becoming furetian in its interpretation.

Re: Incredible affirmations that seem to become common places

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

I think it's partially to do with contemporary/current politics, but also a good way to sell books! By the mid 20th century, all the archives had been explored and all the definitive biographies of major 18thc, 17thc, etc figures had been written and published. What is a modern historian to do, if he wants to make a living? He can't find any new facts to reveal - so instead he writes 'opinion' - a 'critical dictionary' , or Schama's revisionism in purple prose. If you criticise the status quo, you cause a splash for a few years, and sell books. It'll be interesting to see if the current political situation produces re-revisionism, with Furet dead and Schama old and tedious, a new generation growing up as the Thatcherite/Reaganomic legacy collapses will probably have a different take on history.

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

Why am I pratically sure that the voice saying very dourly and emotionlessly "He told Robespierre that outrightness was what he showed his wife at night." (at 28:40) is Saint-Just...? I almost hope to be wrong this time.

[victoriavandal.livejournal.com]

I think that bit of audio was taken from the upcoming TV programme, and was meant to be a CSP meeting, so it could be!

[missweirdness.livejournal.com]

I'm listening to it now..they are like..blah..blah blah...kind of boring..waiting for it now. ^^

[trf-chan.livejournal.com]

Mmmm...didn't get much of anywhere indeed. And, here and there, made me cheer on Ruth Scurr, which I never thought I'd be doing (considering that the latter half of Fatal Purity had me rolling my eyes in disgust and irritation more often than not). But, really, the Danton biography guy was ridiculous. "DANTON OVERTHREW THE MONARCHY! DANTON MOBILIZED THE NATION! ALL BY HIMSELF. THROUGH SHEER FORCE OF WILL. REALLY. OH, AND HE MADE THE TERROR ALL ON HIS LONESOME TOO, BUT ONLY BECAUSE HE THOUGHT IT WOULD SAVE THE...*COUGH*LOOKHOWLEARNEDIAM*COUGHCOUGH*...PAT-TREE. SO IT'S JUSTIFIABLE IN HIS CASE ALONE. REALLY." I'd like to know what he thinks motivated Robespierre, then, if not the desire to save France. Pure evil brought about by his terrible, unmanly ways and love of (horror of horrors) ideas?

It really annoys me when the importance of a single person is overstated, whether to that person's credit or detriment, especially by so-called historians. Hey, guys? We're not in elementary school anymore. We can actually study and comment on events in a more complex way than "It all happened because Person X caused Event Y!" Honestly, we can.

[missweirdness.livejournal.com]

I heard that too, and i was like..WHATEVER. They acted like Danton did everything and robespierre did nothing. Well I guess we can say Danton started the revolution..might as well. They totally downplayed and that guy was like..stuttering a lot..like he couldn't find anything to say really. I was like..this guy is so stupid and..oh my god. I'm gonna poke out my eardrums yeah besides that..nothing was said much like you said.

they just insult us that's all.