Robespierre has his Tv Tropes page...! Ô drama

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

This, which I just discovered, just topped most of the reasons why I nurture love-HATE feelings for TV Tropes:

I must bring to your attention that Maximilien Robespierre has his own TV Tropes page!... Uh-huh, after all these weeks of playing around on that site, I just discovered it. (Or perhaps it's new.)

Amoral Attorney and Just The First Citizen, orly? *rises eyebrow*

...hm, I don't know who exactly is this group in charge of TV Tropes, but they can sound like such cynical, bitter, ultra-sarcastic, arrogant b**ches at times. Trust me, I can tell. Ha ha ha, maelicia can do humor.

Some of the Tropes listed there can be, as usual, pretty hateful and/or just plain irritating, and any Historical Inaccuracies/Slash Mentions (yes, they exist -- that's how I first came across that site in fact) aside:

1) I love how, in "Just The First Citizen", Robespierre coexists with Roman Emperors, Stalin, Kim Jong-il, Hitler and Mussolini. Admittedly, it's rather unexpectedly appreciated that they put all presidents and prime minister of the present democracies in the same package deal. In other words: we're doomed.

2) Hoist By His Own Petard: he was eventually executed via guillotine, the fate he assigned to so many others. Ugh. I'm so tired of this one. But it could have been worse, they could have listed Karmic Death. However, Karmic Death is a bit too overused in Original Thermidorian Literature (that is, the pamphlets, etc.) -- which I can testify of after much readings of said documents. Shoot me... but don't miss me in the jaw. Ha ha ha, moar humor.

3) Villains Out Shopping: At the height of the Terror, he lived a normal life at a respectable boarding house, eating toast every morning with his favorite marmalade and flirting with his housekeeper's daughters (although not too much as he was a rather prudish guy). After this of course, he would go to work and sentence lots of people to guillotining.
Yes, you know... that would be logical since IRL "Villains" don't really exist, IRL people you consider "Villains" never really consider themselves as such, and IRL people do lots and lots of very common, banal, boring stuff like everybody does. No, seriously. In between Important Guillotining Scenes and Plotting of Evil Plans Of Tyranny And Mass-Murdering, Robespierre doesn't just brood in the dark sipping red wine blood---oh wait.

4) I'm grateful for the "It's worth noting that many of the morality tropes here differ in different works/character representations." and "A highly controversial person, the level of sympathy allotted to him depends on the work." Small progress. However, the rest....



Thoughts? Comments? Guillotine? Complaints to register? (I really can't stop linking back to that one lately.)

Comments

[acolnahuacatl.livejournal.com]

MARAT NEEDS HIS OWN TV TROPES PAGE. I DEMAND ONE. >(

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

Hahahahaha, that wouldn't fit with their rather limited vision of history (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HistoricalDomainCharacter).

[acolnahuacatl.livejournal.com]

DON'T CRUSH MY DREAMS B|a

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

Don't despair just yet; there is (unfortunately, in my view) a category on that page called "The French Revolutionaries," after all.

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

This is going to be a massacre. ...Again. -_-

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

This is why I think TV Tropes should not include real people or events. The concept of a trope only makes sense in fiction. Writers use tropes, reality doesn't. It's reasonable to talk about tropes in the representation of Robespierre; it is not reasonable to talk about tropes that the historical Robespierre supposedly fits. If TV Tropes would stick to fiction, I would like it a lot more.

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

When they touch reality? They get unbearable. Because they apply this very extreme cynical perspective they seem to share to deconstruction fiction to also deconstruct reality -- the question is: is that really necessary? In some cases, they really walk on the thin line with the Risk Of (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsLove) Falling Into (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil) Downright Disgusting (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle4zfvfjq8). Obviously, that risk reaches the highest level under the "Real Life" categories (although sometimes, with their ultra-cynical summaries beginning each article....)

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

To clarify, I often feel uncomfortable with the cynicism of TV Tropes in general, but at least it can be useful for deconstructing fictions. For "Real Life" though, I agree, unbearable is right. *shudders*

[celine-carol.livejournal.com]

I thought a lot of those tropes were bad, and then I clicked the links to popular representations at the bottom, and found a comic in which he apparently rules a thinly veiled approximation of Hell as a Vampire along with a transgendered sex-maniac Nero (... I mean, really?...) and realized that the actual representations just make the tropes look well-thought-out...

I totally agree that this sort of thing should stick to fiction... I mean, it's one thing for someone's reputation to have been historically skewed by their contemporaries, but just imagine if your entire political legacy was popularly reduced to "Villain out Shopping" and "Sinister Shiny Glasses".

"Complaints to register"= Comedic win. lol.

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

...o.o I think that may be the vampire story victoriavandal (I believe) posted a (very traumatizing and scary) scan from last fall. (It was on the comm.) I'd go back in the archives but... I don't want to see that before going to bed. No, really.

I think they're pushing deconstruction, the linguistic turn, postmodernism, Hayden White, yadda yadda yadda, just a bit too far. I recognise that reading through them is very useful at times to deconstruct rambling historian interpretations (because they insert tropes in their narration) and thermidorian propaganda (because, well, duh, propaganda, it uses tropes -- and very unsubtle ones). But to actually apply it to reality, that's... um, as they say themselves, this can have Unfortunate Implications (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnfortunateImplications). I.e. reducing reality and individuality to tropes as if everything could be predicted or fated.

I really can't stop linking to it, really! And I don't even like it. But, well, it suits this whole theme of "The Only Basis of The Lulz Here Is That I Did Not Do The Research (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch) -- And Neither Did You! And You All Fail History Forever! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailHistoryForever) ...see, they can be practical for some uses.

[celine-carol.livejournal.com]

I found the picture that I imagine you were talking about(Robespierre is chilling with everyone evil that has ever died, and looks as if he hasn't eaten anything in several hundred years?)... Ugh. I think that probably sums up my thoughts on that...

I understand the use of tropes when applied to published works and propaganda, but, geez... There's no need to reduce history to a melodramatic anime. (Couldn't help but notice how the vast majority of those links took you to a picture of some anime character)

The same person who did that comic actually has some others that are more historically accurate (they're hidden somewhere in her site's archives...) She has a rather sad one of Saint-Just's last speech being interrupted and Robespierre and his followers getting ejected from the convention that I quite like :)

[trf-chan.livejournal.com]

And you've just got to love what they say about Saint-Just on the page about the French Revolution!

The Dragon: Louis Saint-Just, the "Angel of Death", served as Robespierre's fanatically loyal right hand man, and was sent to carry out his orders across France.

Who knew that Saint-Just:
A. Had no thoughts or ideas of his own
and
B. Was sent across France to carry out Robespierre's orders. Silly me, I had always thought he went to certain parts of France as a representative of the National Convention. Of course, we all know that the National Convention was completely run by that ~villainous dictator~, Robespierre, so I suppose it amounts to the same thing. D:

[celine-carol.livejournal.com]

...BBC has known that for some time now I believe (in fact, I think this website may have been one of their prime sources for that documentary they did awhile back...)

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

Edit: This comment was changed when my reason came back. The "reason" being: I'm in ur Troperville, editing ur baka mistakez. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheFrenchRevolution) Maelicia pwned the SYSTEM. In a constructive way that involved no violence. Srsly.



The Gif of Fury stays though.

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

Not to mention how Couthon is reduced to an "Evil Cripple." *That's* original.

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

Also, apparently The French Politicial System is "bizarre" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FrenchPoliticalSystem). Funny how you can always answer them with their own tropes: Values Dissonance (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ValuesDissonance) and Your Mileage May Vary (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YourMileageMayVary). But then, I assume their ultra-cynicism and hatred of Omg The French And Their Revolution would make them blind to see their own ethnocentricism.


But geez. Evil cripple. They could add "from the Thermidorian point of view" or something. Geez.


Edit: Still in their Troperville, editing their nonsense. Added a precision at least.

[estellacat.livejournal.com]

I don't suppose it occurs to them that every political system, to the extent that each one is unique, is going to look bizarre to anyone who isn't used to it. But, of course, as you say: ethnocentrism. It is interesting though, how they provide you with the tools to combat them.

Good for you.

[lucilla-1789.livejournal.com]

Their page on Napoleon is very annoying as well.
I think some of my friends from anime circles write stuff on TV Tropes. Not about history, I hope...

[maelicia.livejournal.com]

Napoléon is beyond my period, so I can't really tell.

They're a lot into anime, yes... Also, I just realised that you just needed a "username" to contribute. However, since it seemed like their cynicism is soooo shared and similar in every page (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AssimilationPlot), I first thought it was just a small group (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheConspiracy) that did it. Alas, no, again.

[missweirdness.livejournal.com]

I don't care much for the tropes really; but they do need to stop about Robespierre unless they can come up with something more original than what they wrote; and yes they need to stick to fiction.

>.> or there will be hell or something >.> i don't know..

Funny you found something like that and i didn't..

[citoyenneclark.livejournal.com]

umm...Knights Templar? Oh Really? O_o. Where did they get that from?

[spurnedambition.livejournal.com]

Oh, TvTropes. I remember finding this little thing and laughing myself to death. It was just so ridiculous and "WTF IS THIS I DON'T EVEN"-worthy:

Robespierre (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReignOfTerror) is the universe's first attempt at moe (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Moe).

Glasses that manage not to conceal his eyes? Check. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Meganekko) Sickly disposition? Check. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IllGirl) Horribly misguided but good-intentioned? Meeting a gruesome end? Check, check, CHECK. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie) Pale, spacey, soft-spoken and Hollywood Homely (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollywoodHomely) with an Ax Crazy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AxCrazy) streak, Fallen Hero (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FallenHero) Knight Templar (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightTemplar), with an adorable Trademark Favorite Food (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrademarkFavoriteFood) and few female friends (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HoYay). Saint Just is his tomboyish hoop-earringed companion (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TomboyAndGirlyGirl) and Desmoulins might just be very, very Unlucky Childhood Friend. Unfortunately, his series is short-running, though long enough to piss off the Moral Guardians (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoralGuardians) (and anyone with eyes in their head) and ends badly (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheThermidor), bordering on a Gainax Ending (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GainaxEnding).

--Alternately, he is the Unlucky Everydude (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnluckyEverydude) protagonist of a deconstruction of both rose-tinted historical shojo manga and Harem Anime (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnwantedHarem?from=Main.HaremAnime) series. His Unwanted Harem (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnwantedHarem) consists of a Clingy Jealous Girl (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClingyJealousGirl) sister, for those who like that sort of thing (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrotherSisterIncest) (who ends up looking rather pitiful), Elenore Duplay the somewhat clueless Shrinking Violet (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShrinkingViolet) Moe Blob (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Moe?from=Main.MoeMoe) with her very own Clingy Jealous Girl (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClingyJealousGirl) streak, Charlotte Corday (who wandered off on her own and bad stuff happened; initially planned to be some sort of French Yamato Nadeshiko (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YamatoNadeshiko) turned Tsundere (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere)), Saint-Just the borderline Bridget for the yaoi fangirls (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Bishonen), Desmoulins, for extra yaoi factor, an extremely unlucky childhood friend (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnluckyChildhoodFriend). Outside of the harem, Danton is the unfortunate, somewhat oafish Boisterous Bruiser (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BoisterousBruiser). Of course, reality not being fiction, things deconstructed all right. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItGotWorse) Think about this. Was that the sound of something breaking? Your soul, perhaps?

(http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnluckyChildhoodFriend)